hello audiophiles - like so many others on this site I am having to get rid of my (ancient) separates due to increasing lack of space. Before I take the plunge and purchase a micro system, can anyone offer advice/opinion on a couple of matters I do not feel confident enough about. My budget is about £300 and I am happy to take the speakers that come with the system.

First, is it always the case that a higher output always produces a better sound? I ask because the Panasonic SC-PMX2D produces 160W for a reasonable price; the Denon D-M35 and the Onkyo CS-515 each produce about 40W for almost double the price, as do other more expensive brands. I am inclined to go for the Denon or Onkyo on the grounds of what I imagine is superior build quality, but would I lose out on sound quality? The room is about 4m x 5m.

Second, micro systems appear not to have tone controls, i.e.treble/bass. does this mean I am stuck with the sound the manufacturer imposes on me?

Any comments gratefully received.

[majorwedgy]

First thing's first output/power has no baring at all on the sound the system will produce, if you look at Valve amplifiers which are supposed to produce a more accurate sound than transister amps even though they are typically only about 10watts power.

Secondly the figures quoted by Panasonic may be the speaker power handling capacity rather than the actually power of the amp + even if the amp is rated that high, it or the speakers will distort long before those figures are reached.

Finally the quality of the sound produced will be nowhere near as high, I personally own a Onkyo cr515 and the sound produced by it is absolutely stunning for its size and really does make my old Panasonic sc-pm15 bi-amp machine sound like an mp3 player playing through headphones in comparison, both the denon and the Onkyo have tone controls for treble and bass

[Badger0-0]

You get what you pay for, simple as, IMO

[Graham27]

Maybe have a look at the Yamaha CRXM170 system also ? It's been out a year or two but it has come down in price due to this. It was well reviewed at it's launch, and still holds a 5* rating in What Hi-Fi.

It has all the usual features, and is unusual (for micros) in that it has FM/AM and also DAB. It also has tone controls of some sort, as I can see a button on the front of the system in the photo !

You could pair this with a speakers of your choice if you wish to maximise the performance. If you're just looking for a more straight forward purchase, or aesthetic matching, some places sell it bundled with Yamaha speakers for about £220.

I was looking for a system for my parents, and this was the best value I could find. Getting them to part with their money for it is another matter entirely !

[majorwedgy]

I would have to say that the M170 is VERY feature rich (the same feature set as the onkyo inc DAB) but in all honesty the £50 gets you a much much MUCH better sound. I think if you look at the yamaha I would suggest saving yourself £100 and going for a goodmans DAB micro or similar

[Graham27]

Where did you get to hear them majorwedgy ? I was curious to hear the Yamaha, but I've never actually seen one in-store anywhere ?

[majorwedgy]

Richersounds in Exeter had the Denon, Yamaha and the Onkyo all on display and I was able to listen to both the Yamaha and Onkyo - decided against the Denon as was more expensive and was told it didnt sound as good as the onkyo anyway

[Graham27]

Ah, cheers. Never thought of good old Richers. Tend to avoid them after one too many instances of "we've just sold the last one not five minutes ago sir".

It's kinda at the top of my folks budget though, I couldn't get them to stretch to the Onkyo. It must be a fair bit better than the Goodmans effort though ? I heard that and was very disappointed.

[majorwedgy]

I really would advise you listen to it first mate as I was REALLY disappointed by the Yamaha and was all but ready to part with my cash until I heard it. Check out this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/CRH240-Syste...sbs_ce_title_9
Never heard it but understand that TEAC have a good reputation with the sound quality of their small units or even this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Denon-DM33-R...bs_ce_title_20

[Graham27]

Thanks very much for that !

My father is insisting on AM, FM & DAB. That rules a lot of micros out, including the Denons in his price range, but that Teac might be just the job. Peter Tyson don't seem to have it on their main site though, but I'll email them.

What were the shortcomings with the Yamaha if you don't mind me asking ? Just poor overall ?

[majorwedgy]

Well this is purely subjective but I listened to a cd I took with me (the essential Bruce Springsteen) and listened to it with a pair of Mordaunt Short 902i and Cambridge Audio S30 speakers and the sound was very bright with not a lot of bass and generally 'messy' sound, even though it had been paired with fairly decent speakers it sounded absolutely awful. I didn't get to try the features of the machine as the sound was so bad.

Also I don't know if you can take this as indicative of the build quality but the display units volume control was messed up so when you turned the volume down it actually increased the volume!!!!!1 very annoying when demoing the unit in a busy store! It certainly does not feel as well made as the onkyo I bought.

I am sure you will find people who will attack what I am saying as they are happy with their kit but I would have to ask whether they had compared it side by side to anything else. Ultimately though you may purchase it and find you are perfectly happy with the sound in isolation all about personal preferance.

[L4dva]

I had my onkyo 715 with a pair of mordaunt shorts and was not impressed. Whereas when I had them on the end of a cambridge audio amp they were awesome!

[majorwedgy]

yeah I must admit I think the mordaunts are highly over rated. I have used them with a Yamaha M170, the Onkyo 515, a Rotel RA931 and an older fisher studio standard amp and with all of them they were distinctly lacking to my ear sounding rather hollow for want of a better word