How best to improve my system (Warning - Vinyl Content)

Herbie · 12-06-2007, 8:31 AM

About 7 or 8 months ago I bought a new system (MF 3.5 Amp and CD into PMC TB2+ through Merlin interconnects and QED cable), but thought it might be fun to mess around with some vinyl... So bought a Project Xpression II turntable (w/ OM10 cart) and a Project Phono Box, plus some cheapish Chord cables.

I really wish someone had told me before I spent a grand on the CD player how good vinyl could sound. I've now practically given up buying CDs and it all gets directed towards new and secondhand LPs.

Anyway, given the change in focus, I'm now thinking it might be worth spending a little more on the analogue end of things and upgrading something in that chain. I know the Phono Box is pretty cheap, and the turntable wasn't the best out there, but where would it be best to start the upgrading from and what to??

There's nothing inherently wrong with the setup at the moment, it's just that occassionally a record really seems to shine and there's a depth and clarity to it which I don't hear elsewhere. I'd like to get that with more recordings.

Any thoughts?

nuttyboyz · 12-06-2007, 11:56 AM

I would look at the cart first,I'm a dynavector man myself,but maybe a better Ortofon MM would help you.

kjd67 · 12-06-2007, 1:14 PM

i would have to agree with nuttyboyz. i have a debut III, upgraded the om5 to a goldring 1012 gx and boy what a difference.

Herbie · 12-06-2007, 2:17 PM

Ok... I'm definitely liking the sound of that - considerably cheaper than a new turntable or phono stage...

How easy to fit are replacement cartridges? Or would a better stylus for the OM10 be an alternative? Looking at the specs for the Ortofon range, it appears to be the stylus itself that changes as you get more expensive...

harrygrey382 · 12-06-2007, 3:19 PM

Yeah that's what I'd say, Upgrading to a 20 stylus (turning it inot an OM20) is meant to be best VFM (£50 ish), or you could go a 30 or 40. This apparantly (haven't done it myself) is a large step forward in all areas, and unlike replacing the cartridge (requiring fiddling with protractors, VTF etc.) is so quick and easy.

gazza73 · 12-06-2007, 3:30 PM

I personally think that a cartridge upgrade will show only a little improvement in sound as the cart has the least effect on the sound quality of vinyl playback especially considering your TT. You only tend to see big improvements if your using a top notch arm and phono stage and deck. The sound may be different rather than better.

I'm sorry to say that if your after something better, it will probably cost you.

Herbie · 12-06-2007, 4:05 PM

Interestingly, just phoned my usual hifi pusher and had a bit of a chat with them. Asked about the phono stage and cartridge and he was of a similar opinion.... Whilst a new cart would have a slight improvement, the only way to get a dramatic improvement / change would be to change the TT.
He really rated the little Project Box and suggested that to get any serious improvement there would cost £350+ and would then be out of kilter with the TT.

I'm guessing the next jump from an Xpression TT is going to be £600+, which I really don't think I can justify at the moment...

Maybe I'll get the new stylus and my ears syringed instead...

overkill · 12-06-2007, 4:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herbie

Interestingly, just phoned my usual hifi pusher and had a bit of a chat with them. Asked about the phono stage and cartridge and he was of a similar opinion.... Whilst a new cart would have a slight improvement, the only way to get a dramatic improvement / change would be to change the TT.
He really rated the little Project Box and suggested that to get any serious improvement there would cost £350+ and would then be out of kilter with the TT.

I'm guessing the next jump from an Xpression TT is going to be £600+, which I really don't think I can justify at the moment...

Maybe I'll get the new stylus and my ears syringed instead...

Try looking at the second hand TT market. That way you can get a serious upgrade - without breaking the bank.

Cartridge upgrades can make a serious difference in sound quality. The idea that they don't is pretty much down to 'current thinking'. However, (there's always a 'however') if you don't have a decent TT and tonearm in the first place, the difference, unless you change type (ie MM to MC) will be nominal.

Having used the OM series, and flogged them, I'm sorry I don't subscribe to that view either. The change from 5 to 10 was pretty big, but from then on it grew less and less. From the 20 to 30 I could hear no difference at all.

The cheap MM's are pretty much of a muchness. Only when you start using MC's do you see real changes both in depth and delivery.

gazza73 · 12-06-2007, 6:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herbie

Interestingly, just phoned my usual hifi pusher and had a bit of a chat with them. Asked about the phono stage and cartridge and he was of a similar opinion.... Whilst a new cart would have a slight improvement, the only way to get a dramatic improvement / change would be to change the TT.
He really rated the little Project Box and suggested that to get any serious improvement there would cost £350+ and would then be out of kilter with the TT.

I'm guessing the next jump from an Xpression TT is going to be £600+, which I really don't think I can justify at the moment...

Maybe I'll get the new stylus and my ears syringed instead...

Sounds like good advice from your dealer there. With vinyl you have to think of the physics involved. If you put an expensive cartridge on an arm and deck that are not the best, all those extra tiny vibrations you expensive cartridge is picking up will all be lost by the time it even reaches you phono stage. Your TT is a great sounding deck so for the time being enjoy it and only think of a cartridge change when yours gets a little worn.

kushtibari · 12-06-2007, 6:23 PM

The X-Pack is quite a good deal, decent budget deck with a good cartridge. I used to have the Phono Box SE and liked it - moved to a used Sonneteer Sedley at £200 which I'd highly recommend.

Funnily enough I used to run them through the TB2+ as well. Lovely sound.

cwilson · 12-06-2007, 7:56 PM

If you really want to hear what your deck can do treat yourself to one of the vinyl worlds hidden secrets. It should not be a secret, its been on the market for years. It's a high out put moving coil, so will work into a MM stage. It is bright red, and is probably the best £250 cart out their. What is it, its a denon DL110, and it cost around £80.00.
http://www.mantra-audio.co.uk/mantraonline.htm
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue15/denondl110.htm

Ianfromnotts · 12-06-2007, 8:18 PM

this might be worth while watching/checking out depending of course on condition and how the bidding goes

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...9635%26fvi%3D1

benny4 · 12-06-2007, 8:23 PM

Another vote for the Denon cartridge here. I bought a 2nd hand Rega P2 which came with a AT cartridge and to be honest I was seriously underwhelmed. With the addition of the DL110 however, my vinyl now gets played a lot more than my CD's.