A reflective tale of "if only I hadn't done that" and lessons learnt (bit long)

[Paul Williams]

The other night as I listened to my system (with the usual large grin on my face) LP after LP I suddenly came to earth with a bit of a bump. I just finished listening to the Art Pepper album “Living Legend” and it have never sounded better – everything was truly presented as a single magical performance, this is an album I’d classify as a hard listen, but it really made sense like never before. Next album was queued up and as the stylus started into the groove, my smile disappeared and part way through the first track I took the LP of and turned off the system – the mood was gone. This LP was unlistenable, one of my old favourites to, but now, not so hot.

About 18 months ago I changed my system completely and as was noted in another thread (about CD quality) those really well recorded albums just get better and better, but any poor ones are exposed in quite a ruthless manner. Would I go back to the old system? No. Do I miss any of the old components? No. But what to do with all those albums I use to enjoy and this I where a dangerous train of thought started – I need a second Turntable (don’t really listen to CD’s enough to worry about) but what to get? This then prompted a whole chain reaction of thoughts. It would be the ideal opportunity to try out some of those things I’ve always wanted too and tidy up some loose ends all in one go. What I really need is a turntable that could take two (or three) arms, then I could try another Unipivot & and a standard(?) bearing arm. How about one of them being a 12 inch unit, lets see if these really do have reduced distortion characteristics over the normal 9 inch ones.

So with these thoughts I did a little research and decided that a good old ancient Garrard 301 or 401 or at a pinch a Thorens 124 chassis would be just the ticket. I’d quite enjoy fabricating a base to facilitate three arms. So with this in mind it was time to hit eBay and see what was about. Yes, loads of them, so started bidding and………..decided this way was madness £400, £500, £921 (Garrard 301, grey, grease bearing and not really that tidy). So now I’m bidding for poorer and poorer examples, even some with bits missing and they're still going for over £200, to Japan, Germany, Taiwan, Hong Kong, you wouldn’t believe some of the things I’ve bid on and some of the prices they went for. Now, I have to tell a little tale and this is that moment when you wish you could roll back the years (oh hindsight is truly a wonderful thing).

Many years ago, when I’d just bought my Linn Sondek, I decided to sell my Thorens TD160 privately. So it went into the local paper and soon I was taking out to someone to listen to. He liked it and to clinch the deal he wanted me to take his current deck in part ex; – I dropped the price by £10 and took the deck. It even came with a folder of instructions, original invoice, the works. Anyway, I also put this in the paper and tried to sell it and after four attempts, plus putting on the notice board at work, “free to anyone who wants it” it went in the bin, couldn’t give it away. It was considered a bit of a joke in the local Hi-Fi shops and one dealer showed me the three he had in the back. Well, what I put in the bin was a pristine Garrard 301 grey, grease bearing model with full documentation and history. I haven’t felt this cheesed off since I sold my EAR 509’s only to see them be re-introduced as the Jubilee model at a cool £6k and the second hand price go through the roof. Still no use crying over spilt milk as they say. But if anyone else would like to cheer me up with some tales of the ones they “should never have let go” I’d be happy to hear.

I still want a second turntable, just not to sure what direction to go in now. May just get an old Rega, strip out the bits to put it into a new larger plinth, just have to see what turns up cheap.

Paul

[bobdixon]

Blimey, I sold a 301 with 12 inch SME arm long long time ago for a tenner. I probably got more for the paving slabs it sat on as I recall it was a pain in the butt, suffering serious feedback and the weights always getting tangled up in my hamfisted mitts, but on a good day it sounded glorious. I do still however prefer the convenience of CD

[Beobloke]

Originally Posted by Paul Williams

Well, what I put in the bin was a pristine Garrard 301 grey, grease bearing model with full documentation and history.

Reminds me of a story i heard when BBC Radio Solent moved premises about 10 years ago. I was told by the bloke who came to repair our TV that they filled a skip with BBC-modified Garrard 301s that they had stripped out of the studio - to this day i still hope someone grabbed them..........

[Paul Williams]

The thing is, I don't really rate these turntables as being that good. I just want a non-arm dependent chassis that I can plinth mount and not be restricted by manufactured arm mounts. Any suggestions? I really don't understand the praise being heaped on these stalwart idler wheel units.

I know that due to their relative complexity it would be almost too costly to produce at a saleable price today and some feel they outperform modern units, so they've become one of the collectors decks - but I still feel that like most things, the hype has inflated the price beyond common sense levels.

But hey, if people want to pay the price.....If I had one, I'd probably put it on eBay myself and use the money to get a more modern unit. So come on everyone, there must be loads of these Garrards knocking around, get them on eBay to satisfy all those punters with deep pockets looking to buy into some turntable nostalgia.

Paul

[karkus30]

How about an EMT broadcast turntable. Massive build and should cope with anything.

The other option would be one of the old Technics SP10s another battleship that could cope with any arm fitted.

[Paul Williams]

Originally Posted by karkus30

How about an EMT broadcast turntable. Massive build and should cope with anything.

The other option would be one of the old Technics SP10s another battleship that could cope with any arm fitted.

There's an EMT on eBay at the moment, which is about 40 miles away from where I live so I'll be watching that one , plus a few SP-10's. The SP-10 is a very nice deck, but most I've looked at have had rather hard lives and tended to be quite poor. Still, the turntable section on eBay seems very active at the moment so I'll just keep watching.

Paul

[Beobloke]

Originally Posted by Paul Williams

The thing is, I don't really rate these turntables as being that good. I just want a non-arm dependent chassis that I can plinth mount and not be restricted by manufactured arm mounts. Any suggestions? I really don't understand the praise being heaped on these stalwart idler wheel units.

Paul

Hope you don't mind me asking, but have you actually heard one, in good condition and fettle, in a PROPER plinth and with a decent arm and cartridge?

I have owned my 301 for 17 years now, since the tender age of 15 when my uncle decided he no longer wanted it and was well aware that i had worshipped it since i was about 8 (and yes, i was a strange child................ )
Well, i duly promised to give it a good home and have been of the opinion ever since that it is one of the best turntables ever made. I did retire the SME arm and Shure cartridge a few years ago, and it's now in a newer lead-lined plinth with Audio Technica arm and Ortofon MC cartridge and i have to say the only turntable i have ever heard that, to my ears, SIGNIFICANTLY bettered it was a Michell Orbe/SME V/Ortofon MC7500 combo.

Obviously everyone's ears are different but please don't dismiss it too readily until you've really listened to one!

(as a final thought, a friend of mine bought his Sondek LP12/Ittok over to mine a couple of years ago, and we spent a whole evening comparing it to the 301/AT. Suffice it to say that he subsequently sold his Sondek and now owns a 401............... )

[Paul Williams]

Originally Posted by Beobloke

Hope you don't mind me asking, but have you actually heard one, in good condition and fettle, in a PROPER plinth and with a decent arm and cartridge?

Yes I've heard a few of these, I couldn't comment of the quality of the plinths, but my recollection (from about ten years ago) would be;

301 had a good solid sound but seem quite dark and enclosed, 401 didn't have the depth of bass, but was a much more open sounding unit, Thorens 124 I liked the best of the three, better dynamics, more open than the 401, but was light in the bass, but the most musical. These three had a mixture of differing SME arms, plinths and cartridges so any of the above can't really be considered really that comparative. I thought all three were OK but, didn't consider any of them better than my LP12. Then there was a Lenco G88, but that died during the first record, so I never formed an opinion. I'll never pay a very high price for any of these, because there is so much other stuff I'd sooner spend my hard earned on, but if by chance I get lucky and find one cheap enough I'd be happy to invest some time and effort in it.




But really the aim is to find something that I can experiment with that is far less revealing (or more tolerant) of poor recordings than my current turntable set-up.

Originally Posted by Beobloke

...to say the only turntable i have ever heard that, to my ears, SIGNIFICANTLY bettered it was a Michell Orbe/SME V/Ortofon MC7500 combo...

So one of these Garrards would be fine. But I'd also like to try SET valve amps, high efficiency full range horn speakers, have another go with uni-pivot arms (especially the RS Labs RS-A1) and a parallel tracker. Tried to set-up a friends Souther once, but decided life was too short and went down the pub instead - 17 pages of instructions (quite fancy the new Len Gregory Conductor though).....the list goes on and on.

Paul