Lush sound??? Whats that supposed to mean??

[RustyZip]

Hi...

Im slowly upgrading all my audio equipment

I had:-
Marantz CD63 MkII K.I.Signature CD Player
Arcam Alpha 9 Int. Amplifier
B&W 603 S1 speakers

At the mo, i have:-
Primare CD31 CD Player
Primare I30 Int. Amplifier
B&W 704 speakers

I was really pleased with the music/sound with the original equipment, so i thought, brill - lets upgrade and it'll be even better!!
But now, although detail, clarity etc are superb, its not the sort of "sound" im after..

So, basically what im asking, is (for people in the know) how would you describe the sound of the original equipment (if youve heard that gear)???

One bloke in a HiFi store said my original stuff would of given a very "lush" sound....
What the hell is a lush sound????

Im currently pondering on whether to sell my 704's for something else... i might demo ProAc studio 140... Supposed to go well with the Primare..

Any comments, info, greatly appreciated....

[sbowler]

Thats the danger of upgradeing, in trying to improve the sound which you admit you were happy with. You have now lost that quality that made it sound to you the way you wanted. Everyone hears and sees things differently what may sound good to you can sound harsh to anothers ears. I would consider the word "lush" as meaning a warm sound like mellow is to coffee, a sound that has less top end or treble. I had one of the earlier amps, a huge Yamaha DPSA 2070 when I bought it the dealer said it had a warm sound, he was right. I onece changed the phonos for a cheaper brand and it made the amp sound brittle, changed them back and it sounded good again.
Reviewers of equipment can only recommend equipment which they feel will meet your needs based on cost, enviroment, type of material listened or watched and your budget. You must then audition this equipment and let your eyes and ear decide for you.

[HiFiver]

Could mean that your original gear was luscious with a warm, beautiful and dense sound?Wonder if the upgrade was right for you in the first place?
Or maybe he meant you are a lush? Were you ****** when you bought the new gear without demoing it?

[hornydragon]

perhaps its not the new kit to blame necassarily.....

It could be the room. your kit is at a level were the room s going make a huge ipmact on the sound the improvements in frequency handling may be exagerating issues in the room design, layout and construction

[Sofa1]

well, if it isn't the room, it will be problem of sinergy, if it's neither of both, it will be problem of you. in fact, that's the way to find better way to say sorry for spending so much on some hi-fi gear which don't deliver anything better than your old poor people system. you know, if you read reviews of some budget-modest price gear, they'll beat hell out of them for anything wrong, but if it is review of some over 1k or 2k component, well that's another story. every fault is forgivable or less important, and at the end you have to find magical combination of cables-main cables-speakers-CD records-room-position of chairs- to make this piece of equipment to sound very good

that's what driving hi-end industry so, don't change anything if you're satisfied. more focus on music is better alternative.

[Thekop]

Originally Posted by RustyZip

Hi...

Im slowly upgrading all my audio equipment

I had:-
Marantz CD63 MkII K.I.Signature CD Player
Arcam Alpha 9 Int. Amplifier
B&W 603 S1 speakers

At the mo, i have:-
Primare CD31 CD Player
Primare I30 Int. Amplifier
B&W 704 speakers

I was really pleased with the music/sound with the original equipment, so i thought, brill - lets upgrade and it'll be even better!!
But now, although detail, clarity etc are superb, its not the sort of "sound" im after..

So, basically what im asking, is (for people in the know) how would you describe the sound of the original equipment (if youve heard that gear)???

One bloke in a HiFi store said my original stuff would of given a very "lush" sound....
What the hell is a lush sound????

Im currently pondering on whether to sell my 704's for something else... i might demo ProAc studio 140... Supposed to go well with the Primare..

Any comments, info, greatly appreciated....

Hi..

This sounds like a classic case of a system mis-match matey.. I'm tempted to blame the B&W 704s speakers in your system.. In my opinion they are just big and lazy sounding speakers.. They certainly aren't my cup of tea.. It's amazing how the much smaller B&W 805's sound so much different and laughably superior to them..... I can't see the ProAcs being much different to the 704s, they are a touch brighter, but smooth with it.... I recommend you try and audition the new Ruark Acoustic Talisman 3 for an injection of pace...

Goodluck

Tim

[dynamic turtle]

Well, the "lushest" cd-based system I can remember was Emporium's set-up at the Heathrow show - Lector tube output CDP, Viva 845 SET amp, ESL57's.

Very, very nice.

I honestly haven't heard a solid state pre/power (that wasn't silly money - i.e. Hovland RADIA's) that I could call "lush".

DT

[dynamic turtle]

Following-up, AFAIK B&W speakers are tested/designed/optimised for solid-state amps. IIRC the 704's are a fairly difficult load and probably need serious transistor power (thinking minimum 150wpc), so it may just be that the Primare doesn't quite have "the balls" to get hold of them properly. Have you thought about trying a meatier integrated? If you find the 704's a bit bright & forward, I couldn't recommend Krell, but something like Audio Analogue Maestro might do the job. Seriously powerful and quite smooth for a transistor integrated. Gorgeous looking and incredibly well-built beast of an amp. Should be available for under £1500 used.

DT

I am whole heartedly with you having heard your old kit
I have owned in the past some expensive kit and have suffered the very same problem. Last year I had a similar problem with a music fidelity A308 cd player, Tri- Vista amp and moitor audio gr20's, the sound was fast open and highly detailed but there was a degree of brightness and sibilance I just could not live with over the long term. A friend of mine used some top marantz gear and i prefered the sound of his gear warm and slightly softer which initialy sounded less detailed but when u listened carefully all the detail was there just presented in a different way.There is undoubtedly the question of synergy (componant matching) and also cabling which can change the sound, although in your system I doubt it will offer you the kind of change you are looking for. Imo I would point the finger at your speakers as personaly I was never impressed with the 704's. I have a marantz cd 5001ose (heavily modded) marantz pm7200 amp and b&w s603s3 speakers and I have a "lush"
kind of sound which I would describe more as a smooth warm sound free of sibilance and brightness.My personal advice if your interested would be to spend a little time demming some new speakers with your amps and cd, ignore the mag's advice and others and judge yourself with your ears and don't rush into a decission. You don't mention a budget but with so many speakers to choose from it's a bit of a mine field out there. The primare kit is not normally over bright so maybe a few phone calls to dealers to ask there opinion within your given budget and see what they suggest.Also be carefull to match your cables as it can make a huge difference.
You don't say wether you like standmount,s of floor standers.
The proac's are ok imo but i would try the Acoustic energy AE1 Mk III's which I think would give you that warmth your currently lacking or maybe the spendor s8e or s9e which are a mellow warm speaker and fabulous, but the main thing is go and listen and don't be influenced by the dealer
good luck and let us know how you get on

[RustyZip]

Thanks everyone for all the replies, some good info/comments there...

Yes, i too, think the cuplrits are the B&W 704 speakers...
With mellower/soft/slow music, they are quite good, great in fact; but when things start speeding up or the music gets more "complicated" they seem to get flustered, and sound awful...

Also, the old system with the B&W603's seemed to be quite mellow/warm sounding, but the treble was still sweet with a nice slight hint of "tizzz"(?), and also had good low bass...

Any more ideas on suggestions for speakers that'll give me roughly the kind of sound i had before???
Budget would be roughly £1500, dont mind buying ex-demo or new.
I prefer floorstanders for the sheer scale of sound and low bass (though not too much bass), and must sit about no more than 15" away from walls..
I listen to roughly - 60% rock, 20% blues, 10% classical, 10% pop

As i originally said, i was thinking of ProAc Studio 140, but anymore that should be on my shortlist, please say...

[CJROSS]

If I was looking to partner floorers with a I30, I would have to be checking these out :

Mod Comment...link to competing forum removed...


£900, stunning the times I heard them with an A30.1.

£1500, if it where me though bro, I'd be running standmounts + a decent sub off that I30, you can get some stunning standmount+sub combos for £1500, even then the Dyn 1.8 IIs would be very very tempting even to a sub-standmount user like me.

Good luck BTW.

[RustyZip]

Originally Posted by CJROSS

£1500, if it where me though bro, I'd be running standmounts + a decent sub off that I30, you can get some stunning standmount+sub combos for £1500

Funny you should say that, although i have only ever had floorstanders, i was thinking "how about those B&W 805s on stands???". Then when funds allow, perhaps add a decent subwoofer..

I forgot to mention before, that these would have to be the front left and right of a home cinema setup, so whatever i buy, matching centre and rears is a must (well - later on at least )

Anyone hear these B&W 805's with a sub??

Or any other floorstanders OR standmounts + sub i should be thinking of ???

[CJROSS]

Originally Posted by RustyZip

Funny you should say that, although i have only ever had floorstanders, i was thinking "how about those B&W 805s on stands???". Then when funds allow, perhaps add a decent subwoofer..

I forgot to mention before, that these would have to be the front left and right of a home cinema setup, so whatever i buy, matching centre and rears is a must (well - later on at least )

Anyone hear these B&W 805's with a sub??

Or any other floorstanders OR standmounts + sub i should be thinking of ???

Loads more.

Standmount wise, Sonus Faber Signums/AEIIs/Cremona Auditors, Diapason Karis, WB Arcs, 805s, System Audio speakers sound excellent of your combo.

[hornydragon]

So your room accoustics are perfect then, thats cool no worries of standing waves or refections causing issues in your playback, a very lucky man

[RustyZip]

Originally Posted by hornydragon

So your room accoustics are perfect then, thats cool no worries of standing waves or refections causing issues in your playback, a very lucky man

Well, i dunno about being perfect, but they seemed fine with my old setup...
Different kit shouldnt need different accoustics should it??