My first DAC - Amazed - What next?

[fourtears]

I just bought my first off-board DAC. Got an old Musical Fidelity X-ACT and hooked it to my Denon 2910 DVD player when used to play CDs.

I am blown away by how much difference it makes to the sound. There is way more detail, but the really mind-blowing thing for me is that the stereo field seems to be much wider. Each instrument seems to come from a different place, mainly outside the room in the street somewhere. Well I have never owned a really good CD player so this is a first time experience for me. What an upgrade for only around 100 quid!

Surprising thing though, I can only hear the improvement if using a coax digital connection to the DAC. With optical it sounds just as flat as it did before. I guess that is jitter introduced by the optical connection.

So now I am looking for an even better DAC but with more than one coax digital input, and preferably at least one loop out so I can daisy chain the DVD player to the AV reciever. Any suggestions for up to 500 ?

[Mr_Sukebe]

I did a lot a research around DACs quite recently and have just upgraded from a NOS dac, which was very natural, but not amazingly detailed.

The key options around your price point appear to be:
- Benchmark DAC1 (haven't heard one, but they are very well reviewed)
- Bel Canto DAC2 (supposedly a "mini wadia"
- Chord DAC64, though even s/h, they're usually closer to £1k. Listened to one, and found it a little too forward for my system requirements. If you have a relaxed system, would probably work wonders
- Musical Fidelity (no idea of the name). I'm not an MF fan, so that's wasn't on the cards, but a lot of other people rave about them, so they can't be bad
- Meridian (e.g. 566). I tried a Meridian CDP recently. Wonderous mid-range, but a little lack in the low end, which was rather mushy

One of the key aspects is that some of the above won't necessarily be "better" than the others, but will have a different style of presentation. You need to find the one that matches well with your system and makes you tap your feet. Don't ask anyone else to tell you that, as you'll get 10 different answers because different people have different preferences.

Other points to bear in mind are that CD transports are not all equal. If they were, you'd never see anyone using a CD transport costing more than £50.
The impression I've been given is that Denon DVD players don't make amazing CD transports. It might be worth considering the idea of a good dedicated transport. They're becoming more available, but the obvious candidates include units with Teac VRDS transports and the Meridian 500 (recommended to me by someone who I have a LOT of respect for the knowledge of).

Hope that helps.

[Cable Monkey]

The 2910 is sometimes said to have problems with disc detection, but I am not convinced that is a general problem, just an issue with a few players. My old 2910 played everything I asked it to. My benchmark is playing a damaged CD. I have a CD which normally stalls on track 3 on some players. Some stopped playback dead, others skipped until there were no further problems. My 3910 plays that CD from start to finish with no interruptions, so while I agree that not all transports are equal I don't think it is as simple as 'Denons can't, others can'.

[Knyght_byte]

sorry to minor threadjack for a sec, thought i'd back up what Cable Monkey is saying, the 3910 is a very good disc spinner, i put all manner of scratched up and strangely weighted discs in mine and so far it has yet to spit one out in disgust.....obviously a few errors creep in on deep scratches, but it seems to get past the minor ones very well....but i'm using the 3910 to decode as well as read atm.

i'm in the MF A5 Cd player review competition atm so i'm holding off buying anything till the results at the end of July in case i win (£1,500 CD player for writing 300 words..my fingers are soooo crossed...lol...not to mention getting to a write a full length review for Hifi News or some similar names magazine....go to MF's website and vote for Robert from Middlesex if you want to help me out!...hehe).....anyhow, if i dont win i might consider the DAC option rather than a whole CD player, would certainly help me out on a lack of rack space problem...heh

what sort of sound does that Benchmark DAC1 give out Monkey and how much is it new? i need a fairly middling neutral sound due to my speakers, but i want plenty of detail and the bass needs to be left as it is rather than tightened up too much, i like it crumbly when its supposed to be crumbly...heh

fourtears, have you considered going higher up the MF chain? they have done a few dacs over the years, i think one of them is the same as used in the X-RAY CD player which was supposed to be very good value for money.....

[Cable Monkey]

Originally Posted by Knyght_byte

what sort of sound does that Benchmark DAC1 give out Monkey and how much is it new? i need a fairly middling neutral sound due to my speakers, but i want plenty of detail and the bass needs to be left as it is rather than tightened up too much, i like it crumbly when its supposed to be crumbly...heh

The Benchmark is both neutral to the point of transparency, and very detailed. It is a proffesional product (though the silver model is very pretty) and caters for coax, spdif optical and balanced inputs switched at the front. It can also act as a passive preamp, the output can controlled from the front if that is how you want it to work. The bass increases but remains focused. I have to say I had some fuzziness low down which the Benchmark cured. I don't know if that is the 'crumbly' that you like. The Benchmark is 799 on the net (Jamsounds) but retails for over 900 elswhere. You can get them cheaper if you order from abroad but I don't know what the tax and duty implications are. Mine is the jewel in my setups crown, it really made that much difference for me. If everything else had to go, I would keep it.

[Knightshade]

Originally Posted by Mr_Sukebe

I did a lot a research around DACs quite recently and have just upgraded from a NOS dac, which was very natural, but not amazingly detailed.

There are some big differences between the NOSDAC's. The ones with Black Gate caps in the output stage tend to suffer from a slightly in the detail department. Still a damn good DAC for the money.
The best of all IMHO (if you can get them) is based around the TDA1541/CS8414 chipsets. I use this as my DAC. Hardly a budget DAC anymore though with VHAudio Teflon Vcaps in the output stage.....
My feelings on the DAC 64 are similar to yours. I found the presentation to be very forward and tending towards harsh. Being quite transport independent is it's major plus, though why Chord can't put labels on the source and buffer switches is beyond me.....

[Knyght_byte]

hmm...wee bit pricey for me atm then...heh..was hoping you was gonna say around £300...lol

ah well....i better hold out for winning the A5 CD player...heh

if not, mebbe next year i'll consider a DAC instead of a CD player when i got some money....
cheers anyhow :-)

(and dont forget to vote for me guys!!! Robert from Middlesex, www.musicalfidelity.com review competition!!...hehe)

[analogueaddict]

Hi,

At £500 you have a couple of choices which immediately spring to mind, the first is to try and locate an MF X-DAC V3 with X-PSU. I have had this combo in my system and it is very good, maybe just a hint warm in the lower midrange compared with absolute neutrality, but certainly gives nothing away in terms of dynamics and texturing of the notes played.

The next DAC I'd look at is the Perpetual Technologies P-3A Signature, OK it's not a new design (mine's 5 years old) but it still more than holds it's own against newer kids on the block. A massive soundstage, not quite as dynamic as the MF, but still incredibly detailed and to my ears it's a little more neutral and honest than the MF, but make no mistake, both of these give a big upgrade to all but the very best CD players at sensible prices.

I hope this helps.

Best wishes,

Dave

[fourtears]

Originally Posted by analogueaddict

Hi,

At £500 you have a couple of choices which immediately spring to mind, the first is to try and locate an MF X-DAC V3 with X-PSU.

Thanks. I have been sniffing around that one and might go and demo in a shop. All the reviews I read suggest going for the tube stage as well but that would blow the budget a bit. My main hesitation is having all those boxes.

The ideal would have been a Tri-vista 24 DAC. One went on ebay on friday but finished too expensive for what I would be willing to pay (around 700 which is about the x-dav v3 + psu + buffer money second hand.

Anyone know what a Benchmark Dac1 goes for second hand?

[Mr_Sukebe]

I saw a DAC1 go recently for around £600. They haven't been out that long and get a LOT of good press, hence why they hold their value well, and why I bought a BC DAC instead.

[Cable Monkey]

The DAC1's have actually been around a while. They first emerged in 2003 but didn't come to the attention of the audiophile fraternity for a year or so. A lot have been sold world wide but they don't come on to the second hand market that often because many are used in a proffesional applications where they will remain until the end of their useful lives. The few that do get onto the second hand market don't last long and usually go for £500 plus in the UK.