[render]

Hello,

I am new to this site and also to all the hi fi stuff.

I am thinking of buying a Hi Fi for my PC and I thought I'd also need a sound card (I usually listen to music at day, but i'm also in gaming, so I wanted something with gaming for night - headphones/mic).

As of now, the set up i'm thinking of is a NAD C 375BEE and NAD C 275BEE both running in bridge mode pushing Focal Chorus 836V floorstanders, of which I really liked the quality/volume ratio (I know no such thing exists, but it kept good mids and highs at over 50% volume, and it was loud, very loud).
Using Q.E.D performance Audio 2 cable and XT350 speaker cables.

I have thought of how to connect my pc to a hi fi, and have come to a few different solutions:

1) Connect the PC via USB (Jenving Supra cable) to an Arcam rDac (I heard the rDac's USB was jitter-free).

2) Connect the PC via coaxial (Q.E.D. again) to the Arcam rDac, but can't figure out what sound card to use, the only ones I can find selling here in Latvia are from Asus and Creative, which I don't think I should trust musically (Tho I also want a sound card for my Steelseries Siberia V2).

3) Same as 2, but with optical (Q.E.D. once more) to the Arcam rDac.

So I want your opinions on which would provide best quality and which sound card should I use (Asus Xonar Essence ST got my mind, or for gaming the Creative Soundblaster recon3d).

Thank you very much,
George.

[GuitarBizarre]

I'm not sure if this is what you were getting at, but digital cables don't benefit in pure performance from being upgraded. Don't waste your money on high quality coaxial, optical, or USB. You'll get better build quality and warranty with no improvements on sound.

Analogue interconnects are a different story, in those cases, buy decent cables, but don't be fooled by brand name, much of it is just rebranded, and good enough is good enough. Law of diminishing returns is astoundingly strong here, to the point of almost being a practical plateau.

As far as your 3 options for connection, use USB. The rDac is asynchronous so USB will provide the best quality connection.


If you DO use a soundcard, again, don't bother "trusting" them musically. Digital is digital is digital and you'll experience no ill effects from using one brand over another via Optical or Coax. Arguably the jitter may be lesser, but recieved wisdom says USB asynchronous is better for jitter than Optical or Coaxial anyway, and even then, it is hotly debated as to whether jitter actually makes an audible difference. I personally suspect it doesn't.

I suspect you could do any of the three things you suggest without issue and without being able to tell the difference between cables or connection types, but if you want to err on the safe side of things and try and reduce the jitter regardless of whether it is or is not audible, use USB.

[render]

Thank you GB,

I guess I'll go with USB then (Also much easier since I don't really need a PC sound card for that). Now only to find a gaming PC sound card for my Steelseries.

Much appreciated.

[GuitarBizarre]

Originally Posted by render

Thank you GB,

I guess I'll go with USB then (Also much easier since I don't really need a PC sound card for that). Now only to find a gaming PC sound card for my Steelseries.

Much appreciated.

Buy Auzentech or Asus. (Auzentech WILL be available to you, they're very good for what market they're serving.) Creative customer service and software support is beyond awful, and they tend to bundle in "Features" like their "Audio Crystalliser" which are just showroom hype, boosting bass and treble to give a false impression of weight and detail.

Their software is also needlessly power hungry, slow and large.

[render]

Thank you I'm looking at the Auzentech X-Meridian 7.1 2G. First time I've heard of Auzentech, so I'm pleased there's another alternative.

[GuitarBizarre]

It's been years since I checked their product lines, but they make cards with Creative X-Fi chips, and C-Media chips. The C-Media are superior on sound quality.

[BMWs1000rr]

Dear members

I am currently drowning in the sea of information and products that is available on the subject.

I have one issue. I am about to embark on the ripping of all of my music to FLAC, and would like to play it at HIGH quality via a Cambridge audio DAC to audiolab amps.

I am unsure if the build I have specified meets the requirements, as I have not asked for a high end sound card. Do i need one?? Output straight from the motherboard via SPDIF (optical or coax), to DAC, to amp, will the sound be as good as CD?

Or do I need a decent sound card? If so, any suggestions?

Cheers

[GuitarBizarre]

Originally Posted by BMWs1000rr

Dear members

I am currently drowning in the sea of information and products that is available on the subject.

I have one issue. I am about to embark on the ripping of all of my music to FLAC, and would like to play it at HIGH quality via a Cambridge audio DAC to audiolab amps.

I am unsure if the build I have specified meets the requirements, as I have not asked for a high end sound card. Do i need one?? Output straight from the motherboard via SPDIF (optical or coax), to DAC, to amp, will the sound be as good as CD?

Or do I need a decent sound card? If so, any suggestions?

Cheers

The Cambridge Audio DAC presents itself to your computer as an external C-Media soundcard, and is treated as your computer's soundcard. Regardless, the ripping process is unaffected by soundcard, you'll have no problems.

[BMWs1000rr]

Thanks for that.

But:

Connect pc (motherboard outputs) via optical or coax spdif, or usb?

I believe USB is limited to less than 24 bit?

So I don't need an onboard sound card at all?

[GuitarBizarre]

If you are playing back music via USB through a Cambridge Audio DacMagic, you can get 24 bit output, but only if you have the newer DacMagic Plus. The older version was, as you say, limited to 16bit via USB. It was also not Asynchronous, and the newer version is.

Beyond that they are functionally the same for your purposes. If you have the plus, use USB, it will be superior. You don't need an internal soundcard of any kind to rip and/or play back music from either configuration.

[BMWs1000rr]

Ahhh, I get it!

typically, I have the older one, and have never used it. So already it's obsolete!!!???

I think then that I'll get the system up and running with what I have, and no soundcard, then upgrade the DAC at some point in the future.

Thanks for the help!

[GuitarBizarre]

Originally Posted by BMWs1000rr

Ahhh, I get it!

typically, I have the older one, and have never used it. So already it's obsolete!!!???

I think then that I'll get the system up and running with what I have, and no soundcard, then upgrade the DAC at some point in the future.

Thanks for the help!

Its not obsolete. Its still a much, much better DAC than 90% of others and will work fine with 99% of audio files.

What it won't do is it won't play HD Audio files that are recorded at Above-CD Bitrates and Samplerates. Everything else you're perfectly fine, and honestly, if you have no HD audio files already, there's no need to upgrade to a better DAC for the sole purpose of that feature.

[BlueWizard]

You have several options, as you are already aware.

1.) upgraded to a quality internal Sound Card and use the analog outputs. But, I would advice forgetting a multi-channel surround sound card, and focus on studio grade Stereo Sound Cards. M-Audio makes a few. Many of these are used in Home Recording Studios.

This is pure analog. The DACs on the sound card convert analog and send the signal directly to your amps. Some will say that environment internal to the computer is too noisy for an analog signal. I don't doubt that this noise exists but I think it is greatly exaggerated. Again, most home recording studios are recording directly to multi-channel STEREO sound cards. In this case, multi-channel means mutiple stereo channels.

2.) An external DAC, such as the rDAC. Keep in mind the OUTPUT of a DAC like this is stereo. There is no need for a multi-channel surround sound card if you are limited to Stereo out.

In this case, the output is DIGITAL to the external DAC. Since Digital is pretty much immune to noise, this assures a clear sound on the output of the DAC.

Of course, there are several options for Digital Out - USB, Optical, and Coaxial. You must make sure you sound card has the feature you intend to use. USB for standard CD quality is fine. But only the very newest USB interfaces are capable of sound quality ABOVE CD. Even then, most are limited to 24b/96k, which is still pretty good.

However, I would speculate that the Optical and Coaxial outputs, in general, should have near unlimited HiDef quality. You should be able to go to 24b/192k, which is about the highest you will find.

That said, you want to check the specification on your outputs and inputs to determine any limitations on them.

If you don't have or plan to have audio files in better than CD quality, then the USB interface will be fine. Virtually all USB interface are capable of 16b/44.1k.

Keep in mind, if you rip a standard 16b/44.1 CD to 24b/192k you've gained nothing. The RIP process can't add data, you will simply create an extremely large 16b/44.1k file. HiDef audio must originate in that HD format. If you rip music from a BluRay, then you have true HiDef. If you download music from HiDef sites, then you have true HiDef. So, sources of true HiDef are rare at this point, but this is an expanding market.

As to External DACs, you can get a specifically USB-only external sound card or DAC. Or, as you've already suggested, you can get a more versatile external DAC like the rDAC which is not limited to USB. Likely you can save a bit on a USB-only external DAC, but they can also be fairly expensive.

So, you need to look at the short term and the long term. HiDef audio is on the way, and it is certainly the future, but it is the somewhat distant future. I don't see it become mainstream for several years. You must also consider your sources of music. If they are not true HiDef, then USB is probably fine.

Again, it doesn't do any good for the external DAC to be HiDef ready if the source sending the signal is not capable of sending HiDef Data, so it is important that you look at and understand the specs of the source of that sound data. If you sound card or computer digital outs are not capable, then the external DACs capabilities are wasted.

As to which is the best method, I'm not sure there is one. There is only the method that best suits your needs and budget.

Personally, I would say get a DAC that has higher definition capabilities, at least 24b/96k on the USB port. But you must also make sure your source has that same capability. Unless I'm mistaken, USB 3.0 has just been released, and it has extreme data speed capability, near that of Ethernet computer networks. But, for audio, the more common USB 2.0 is more than enough. However, many external DACs have only implemented USB 1.0 on the assumption that for CD quality, that is enough, and they are right, for CD quality USB 1.0 is enough ... for now.

So verify the capabilities of your sound card data outs, and your computer USB ports, though I can't imagine you computer not having at least USB 2.0.

Then pick an external DAC that has a HiDef USB port. Though Coaxial or Optical would eliminate any data rate or HiDef problems.

Lastly, don't discount a Studio Quality Sound Card with analog outputs. That is probably the lowest cost route to good sound.

So, a lot of factors to consider, and there really is no one right perfect answer, they are all good options.

Personally, I would be torn between a good internal Studio Quality Stereo sound card, and a good external general purpose DAC. The external DAC is the most versatile and probably the best ultimate sound quality, but also the most expensive, and it is probably the route that a majority of people would take.

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/bluewizard

[BMWs1000rr]

Thank all for taking such time to help! Very refreshing.

I already have the dacmagic, so that is what I'll be using.

Music will be ripped from CD, predominantly, but I'm VERY keen to investigate higher quality when it becomes more readily available.

So, usb or spdif output to the DAC will be fine for my purposes?

I once did an experiment, using only my laptop, with a CD ripped to it. I compared the quality, played through the DAC, to the same CD played on my Roksan Caspian. There WAS a difference, but I was playing via media player, and the rip wasn't done with foobar or EAC, so I'm hoping, with these changes in place, that the SQ will get closer to CD. Am I right?

Again, thanks for your help. This is very interesting!

[larkone]

Originally Posted by BMWs1000rr

Thank all for taking such time to help! Very refreshing.

I already have the dacmagic, so that is what I'll be using.

Music will be ripped from CD, predominantly, but I'm VERY keen to investigate higher quality when it becomes more readily available.

So, usb or spdif output to the DAC will be fine for my purposes?

I once did an experiment, using only my laptop, with a CD ripped to it. I compared the quality, played through the DAC, to the same CD played on my Roksan Caspian. There WAS a difference, but I was playing via media player, and the rip wasn't done with foobar or EAC, so I'm hoping, with these changes in place, that the SQ will get closer to CD. Am I right?

Again, thanks for your help. This is very interesting!

You could consider either a MF V-Link (24/96) OR V-LINK 192 (24/192) between your PC and DacMagic as this will give you Async USB and HiDef file support without having to change your DAC.

Certainly made a difference in my setup.

[GuitarBizarre]

Originally Posted by larkone

You could consider either a MF V-Link (24/96) OR V-LINK 192 (24/192) between your PC and DacMagic as this will give you Async USB and HiDef file support without having to change your DAC.

Certainly made a difference in my setup.

It won't give you HiDef file support. The DacMagic cannot process that information in any form.

It will, however, still perform DA conversion on those files if they are given to it at 16 Bit rates, which the OS should do automatically upon detecting the DacMagic.

[Gixxerblade]

According to the spec. it will support 24/96 on the digital input.


Digital input word widths supported:

16-24bit (16 bit for USB)

Digital input sampling frequencies supported:

32kHz, 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz (44.1kHz, 48kHz for USB)

[GuitarBizarre]

Originally Posted by Gixxerblade

According to the spec. it will support 24/96 on the digital input.


Digital input word widths supported:

16-24bit (16 bit for USB)

Digital input sampling frequencies supported:

32kHz, 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz (44.1kHz, 48kHz for USB)

Yes. Over optical it'll do it, but Larkone is suggesting he buy something that will allow it to do it over USB. Seems silly.

[Gixxerblade]

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

Yes. Over optical it'll do it, but Larkone is suggesting he buy something that will allow it to do it over USB. Seems silly.

Why silly? You get the benefit of an asynchronous usb output from the source - sounds perfectly reasonable to me, a lot of people use a v-link.

[GuitarBizarre]

Because why use USB output at a 16 Bit word length, so that you can put that 16 Bit signal into an input that will accept 24 Bit? Its still 16 bit at the start, you're not going to magic up another 8 bits of fidelity. And you can still play a 24 Bit audio file without doing that, the PC output just converts it to a 16 bit signal instead.

[Gixxerblade]

The usb output would be 24/96 to the v-link and then to the digital input, why would it be 16 bit?

[GuitarBizarre]

Originally Posted by Gixxerblade

The usb output would be 24/96 to the v-link and then to the digital input, why would it be 16 bit?

Point.

[Gixxerblade]

So, to clarify for bmws100rr you can output hi-res files up to 24/96 via s/pdif either by co-axial or optical - a lot of motherboards have one or the other and some have both, to the dacmagic and you can use a v-link or similar link to do the same by usb. Here's a review of the v-link which gives some more details:

Musical Fidelity V-Link: a simple solution to a common computer audio problem | gramophone.co.uk

[BMWs1000rr]

Thanks for the clarification! I was getting a bit lost then.

Seeing the above post, if my DACmagic already has USB in, do I need a V Link?? Is this a quality thing, or purely connectivity?

The more you dig, the less easy it is to get out of the hole...

[Gixxerblade]

Originally Posted by BMWs1000rr

Thanks for the clarification! I was getting a bit lost then.

Seeing the above post, if my DACmagic already has USB in, do I need a V Link?? Is this a quality thing, or purely connectivity?

The more you dig, the less easy it is to get out of the hole...

You don't need a v-link or similar (v-link ii etc.) but you are limited to 16/48 on the dacmagic input without one. The v-link and similar gives you up to 24/96 if you have any files like that. A more detailed review:

Musical Fidelity V-Link USB-S/PDIF converter | Stereophile.com

[BMWs1000rr]

Lovely. Thank you.

Looks like one of those will be on the shopping list for the future! At least it's just a plug in device, so an easy add on.

Just noticed that they also do a 192 version!

[Gixxerblade]

They do a 192 version and you may want to get the benefit of the XMOS chip but you will only be able to send up to 24/96 because that is the limit of the dacmagic s/pdif input according to the specifications I listed.

[BlueWizard]

Do consider the Music Fidelity V-DAC-II. Very low cost, very high performance.

Musical Fidelity V DAC - Google Search

EDITED: Sorry, the above Google link is to the original V-DAC. The following is to the V-DAC-II -

Google-UK - Shopping Search - Musical Fidelity V-DAC-II

This DAC consistently has VERY Positive Reviews, and the latest version has USB Async up to 24b/192k, based on the information I came across.

Musical Fidelity | V-DACII DAC

"Crucially, it’s a 24bit/192kHz asynchronous USB design, offering a significant sonic step up for computer music lovers."

I'm not sure why you would need the V-Link which is a digital to digital conversion. Why not just go for Digital to Analog conversion and be done with it?

Steve/bluewizard

[Gixxerblade]

Steve
BMW already has a dac - the dacmagic, he doesn't need a v-link unless he wants to send files greater than 16/48 via usb. If he has files above 24/96 them maybe a v-dac or similar but it is 4x the price of a v-link ii.