[Zorba_8]

Hi All

Looking for a CD player for about £250 to complement my setup as shown below in my signature. Must be black and that's about it!

What do I need to consider if connecting via analogue cables? My Yamaha AVR has Burr Brown DACs on all inputs so will I need a CD player to compliment the processing abilities of my Yamaha AVR?

Or will connecting via optical yeild the best SQ?

Thanks
Mike

[Don Dadda]

Marantz CD6002. They have 2 on clearance at Richersounds Cheltenham for £200 - so says their website anyway.

Richer Sounds - The UK's Hi-Fi, Home Cinema & Flat Panel TV Specialists!

A steal if you can get one.

[Zorba_8]

Originally Posted by Don Dadda

Marantz CD6002. They have 2 on clearance at Richersounds Cheltenham for £200 - so says their website anyway.

Richer Sounds - The UK's Hi-Fi, Home Cinema & Flat Panel TV Specialists!

A steal if you can get one.

Cheers Don Dadda

Sadly, that's a bit of a treck from Norwich and they don't transfer stock.

Shame as it looks ideal.

[Don Dadda]

It is isn't it. Sorry about that, for some strange reason i thought you was near cheltenham

[Zorba_8]

Other end of the country matey!

[Don Dadda]

not exactly walking distance
you could go for cd6003 but £40 outside your budget, or cd5003. RS did have them for £164 but that was earlier in the year.
Or if you can still get one is CA640/r540c v2. They are being phased out but are still available. I would suggest NAD's cdp but i read too any reviews complaining about the cd drawer failing to open or wont close.

[Don Dadda]

not exactly walking distance

you could go for cd6003 but its £40 outside your budget, or cd5003. RS did have them for £164 but that was earlier in the year.
Or if you can still get one is CA640/r540c v2. They are being phased out but are still available. I would suggest NAD's cdp but i read too any reviews complaining about the cd drawer failing to open or wont close.

What do I need to consider if connecting via analogue cables? My Yamaha AVR has Burr Brown DACs on all inputs so will I need a CD player to compliment the processing abilities of my Yamaha AVR?

Or will connecting via optical yeild the best SQ?

Which ever cpd you decide upon, why not try both connection? then you can see if the 3900 or the cdp dac is doing the better job of conversion. There's nothing better than to judge for yourself since it your ears.
I suspect the 3900 will do a very goodconversion job tho.

[Zorba_8]

Originally Posted by Don Dadda

not exactly walking distance

you could go for cd6003 but its £40 outside your budget, or cd5003. RS did have them for £164 but that was earlier in the year.
Or if you can still get one is CA640/r540c v2. They are being phased out but are still available. I would suggest NAD's cdp but i read too any reviews complaining about the cd drawer failing to open or wont close.



Which ever cpd you decide upon, why not try both connection? then you can see if the 3900 or the cdp dac is doing the better job of conversion. There's nothing better than to judge for yourself since it your ears.
I suspect the 3900 will do a very goodconversion job tho.

You seem biased towards Marantz. Is there any reason why you would suggest them over any other of the myriad of brands out there? I remember working for an electrical retailer about 10 years ago in my teens and the KI Signatures were very well thought of.

If £300 will provide noticeable benefits then for the sake of another £50 it will be better to have a night in from the pub and stretch the budget a little don't you think? Not quite Roksan but maybe one day...if only

[Don Dadda]

Morning

heh heh,

Ok, i do have a marantz cdp and amp, but i'm not overly biased towards them but i can seen why you would think that. I think Denon, Nad and a whole host of other products are just as good, (cant get past that look of the Nad's) . If i could get the stuff i really want, it wouldn't be a marantz, but the pocket, wife and kids, determines what i can afford and they fit the bill

And as you say, Roxan's - If only.

I do think some of their stuff is way over priced, especially their AV's. However, pound for pound, they produce some affordable, great sounding and good looking hifi kit.

I could suggest arcam, and as you say, a myriad of other brands, but i haven't had the privvie of hearing them and they are way over £250 - it would be nice tho.

I'm sure other users have other suggestions which could prove just as good or better but they've not come forth yet. Hopefully they will.

[Zorba_8]

Originally Posted by Don Dadda

Morning

heh heh,

Ok, i do have a marantz cdp and amp, but i'm not overly biased towards them but i can seen why you would think that. I think Denon, Nad and a whole host of other products are just as good, (cant get past that look of the Nad's) . If i could get the stuff i really want, it wouldn't be a marantz, but the pocket, wife and kids, determines what i can afford and they fit the bill

And as you say, Roxan's - If only.

I do think some of their stuff is way over priced, especially their AV's. However, pound for pound, they produce some affordable, great sounding and good looking hifi kit.

I could suggest arcam, and as you say, a myriad of other brands, but i haven't had the privvie of hearing them and they are way over £250 - it would be nice tho.

I'm sure other users have other suggestions which could prove just as good or better but they've not come forth yet. Hopefully they will.

I think we're all that that same place you mention about wishing for deep pockets! As i have no kids and a little way away from wedding bells I'm trying to get everything sorted now!

Agree 100% with you on the NAD front, they are so bland and quite cheap looking...but maybe it's because i'm looking at entry/mid range CD players. I'm sure their reference level gear is another class.

Strange you mention Denon as it was a toss up between the AVR2310 and my Yamaha. Pound for pound, the Yamaha won handsomely. The surround field replication is just amazing.

In terms of CD spinners, I'm rather taken with this:

DENON UK | Home Audio Components

Shame it's £350...that's more than two nights confined to the house and no pub! But well worth it

Strange that you mention

[Don Dadda]

Originally Posted by Zorba_8

As i have no kids and a little way away from wedding bells I'm trying to get everything sorted now!

Good on ya, steer clear as long as possible as they are a drain on your resources.

but maybe it's because i'm looking at entry/mid range CD players. I'm sure their reference level gear is another class.

One would hope but alas, even their top end kit looks just as bland but bigger.

In terms of CD spinners, I'm rather taken with this:

url=http://www.denon.co.uk/site/frames_main.php?main=prod&ver=&MID=3&sub=2&action= detail&Pid=422]DENON UK | Home Audio Components[/url]

Seems like quality that does, but this has got me wondering, Could this be the same as a marantz CD6003 under the hood? They are both from the same stable and similarily priced so its possible. You also might want a look at the Cambrige Audio 550/650c as that is around the same price or cheaper and just as good as either of those mentioned. Or as i mention in a eairler post the CA540/640c which would mean an extra night out from the savings..

However, if your heart is set on the Denon, go for it. I'm sure it's quality.
PS: I just looked and seen all of those cdp's at RS. Must be able to demo all and see which comes out best.

BTW, I'm not pro RicherSounds either but they do have all the kit which we mentioned at a decent price

[Zorba_8]

Originally Posted by Don Dadda

Seems like quality that does, but this has got me wondering, Could this be the same as a marantz CD6003 under the hood? They are both from the same stable and similarily priced so its possible. You also might want a look at the Cambrige Audio 550/650c as that is around the same price or cheaper and just as good as either of those mentioned. Or as i mention in a eairler post the CA540/640c which would mean an extra night out from the savings..

However, if your heart is set on the Denon, go for it. I'm sure it's quality.
PS: I just looked and seen all of those cdp's at RS. Must be able to demo all and see which comes out best.

BTW, I'm not pro RicherSounds either but they do have all the kit which we mentioned at a decent price

Like the look of the 640c....mmmm

That is a tasty piece of kit but then it is £330 so it should be.
Azur 650C CD player

I think I need to get my head around how DACs work and how they process signals and how they work in conjunction when transported to amplifiers. And in my case how the 24bit/192kHz DACs work. Will my AVR be able to pass through the signal from the CD player?

My ARV has a pure direct mode which disables unnecessary circuitry, how will this effect the signal??

Where to start though! And the more I think about it the more complicated it becomes....i think that's why i love it so!

[Zorba_8]

To simplfy matters, I think it will be a case of this (£350):

DENON UK | Home Audio Components

OR - (£330)

Azur 650C CD player

Opinions?? Differences in the two? Superior DACs?

[Dean]

Originally Posted by Zorba_8

Like the look of the 640c....mmmm

That is a tasty piece of kit but then it is £330 so it should be.
Azur 650C CD player

I think I need to get my head around how DACs work and how they process signals and how they work in conjunction when transported to amplifiers. And in my case how the 24bit/192kHz DACs work. Will my AVR be able to pass through the signal from the CD player?

My ARV has a pure direct mode which disables unnecessary circuitry, how will this effect the signal??

Where to start though! And the more I think about it the more complicated it becomes....i think that's why i love it so!

Not sure, but it seems you might be implying that you can passthrough a 24bit/192KHz signal to your AVR, and whether it can handle it? This type of signal can only be passed through via a HDMI connection (*edit I just checked and apparently optical is capable of sending a 24bit/192 KHz signal in stereo only so sorry for any confusion with that statement!). For example I can output 24bit/192KHz signal from my media PC to my AVR and the AVR can accept it, it shows 192 KHz in the dispay. I'm sure your AVR could accept it too if you were outputting from a suitable source like a media PC. But as it is you have two choices, let the player perform the D > A conversion via it's DACS and output via analogue (RCA/phono) or let your AVR perform the D > A conversion with it's onboard DACS by using either optical or coaxial connection. Pure direct mode usually cuts out unwanted noise - for example disabling all video circuits, even the display can be a potential source of interference, which can lower the noise floor further.

[Zorba_8]

Originally Posted by Dean

Not sure, but it seems you might be implying that you can passthrough a 24bit/192KHz signal to your AVR, and whether it can handle it? This type of signal can only be passed through via a HDMI connection, optical and coaxial digital won't do it. For example I can output 24bit/192KHz signal from my media PC to my AVR and the AVR can accept it, it shows 192 KHz in the dispay. I'm sure your AVR could accept it too if you were outputting from a suitable source like a media PC. But as it is you have two choices, let the player perform the D > A conversion via it's DACS and output via analogue (RCA/phono) or let your AVR perform the D > A conversion with it's onboard DACS by using either optical or coaxial connection. Pure direct mode usually cuts out unwanted noise - for example disabling all video circuits, even the display can be a potential source of interference, which can lower the noise floor further.

Thanks Dean, I know the best way will be to listen to the two connection types, but is analogue connection generally regarded as the purists way of connecting over optical?

My confusion is caused by the fact that i'm not sure what the amp will do with the signal it recieves? Will it try and process it via it's own DAC it will it simply pass it through? I'm pretty familiar with the instructions and can't see anything obvious about audio pass through.

I'm probably missing the point and need to be given a crash course I think. Using a AVR probably complicates issues too rather than using a dedicated stereo amplifier.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by Zorba_8

Thanks Dean, I know the best way will be to listen to the two connection types, but is analogue connection generally regarded as the purists way of connecting over optical?

My confusion is caused by the fact that i'm not sure what the amp will do with the signal it recieves? Will it try and process it via it's own DAC it will it simply pass it through? I'm pretty familiar with the instructions and can't see anything obvious about audio pass through.

I'm probably missing the point and need to be given a crash course I think. Using a AVR probably complicates issues too rather than using a dedicated stereo amplifier.

Your right it can get confusing with AVRs. There's no straight right or wrong answers, but generally what I say is that if you think your source is up to the task, let it do the D>A conversion and output the signal via the analogue outputs. You will get an analogue signal staight into your AVR.

If your source is very cheap and basic, say a £20 DVD player, then you would be better connecting via the digital optical or coaxial outputs (thus letting the AVRs 'superior' DACS convert the digital signal to analogue). Remember that here we are in the digital domain so your AVR can't just 'passthrough' the digital signal and expect to get any sound, it will need to convert the signal to analogue somewhere, and since it wasn't done in the CDP it will have to be done in the AVR! Don't think of it as processing in a negative way, rather as a necessity (if you do decide to output digitally from the CDP). If the DACS in your AVR are better than the ones in your CDP then it will result in a theoretically better sound.

If you do go for the CA which is regarded as a very decent piece of kit, then use the analogue outputs.

[Don Dadda]

Originally Posted by Zorba_8

I think I need to get my head around how DACs work and how they process signals and how they work in conjunction when transported to amplifiers. And in my case how the 24bit/192kHz DACs work. Will my AVR be able to pass through the signal from the CD player?:

DAC Explanantion from wiki. Digital-to-analog converter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Hope it helps you. Felt like i was reading a passage from star trek - dielithium crystals, tackeon beams, etc

Mate, if you connect using analogue cable then you will be using the AVR dac to do the conversion which is very good dac indeed. Probably the same as in the cdp

My ARV has a pure direct mode which disables unnecessary circuitry, how will this effect the signal??

It should make it sound better. By having it on, there should be no other processing going on, so the only thing the AVR has to concentrate on is cd playback. Circuitry will increase interference and draw processing power away from where it's needed most.

I agree about the 650c - very nice indeed and has good, proven pedigree behind it. If it were me, i would opt for the Marantz- LOL. No, seriously tho i would definitley give the 650c a good looking over. It has my vote out of the 2

[Zorba_8]

Thanks Dean and Don, sometimes it just takes someone to tell you in simplistic terms what's going on inside our lovely black boxes!

I think i'll be making a trip to RS in the new year to pitch the Denon and CA against each other. Don't worry Don Dadda, if they have a Marantz I'll listent to then too, you never know, I could walk away with one!

Wikipedia time!

[Don Dadda]

Glad to help

All the best and enjoy

[Zorba_8]

Beam me up Scottie!

That's some heavy reading in Wikipedia, every word is hyperlinked to a whole other raft of explanations!!

Do I get a certificate when I finish reading??

[Don Dadda]

It should be a 'Masters' cert if you can get thru all that.

I made a mistake in post 17, what i should of said is if you connect digitally, the avr will do the conversion and if by analogue, you will be using the cdp dac for conversion as Dean explained correctly .

[Zorba_8]

Originally Posted by Don Dadda

It should be a 'Masters' cert if you can get thru all that.

I made a mistake in post 17, what i should of said is if you connect digitally, the avr will do the conversion and if by analogue, you will be using the cdp dac for conversion as Dean explained correctly .

No worries, that's what I thought after reading both posts.

Just realised that I've a 8-9 year old Yamaha CD player in the spare room (Yamaha CDX-496) http://www.yamaha-uk.com/pdf/product...ns/CDX-496.pdf that I can compare to the PS3 for play back quality. Will be interesting to see if there's a difference. It's pretty basic and only has 16bit capability, analogue out and optical (not coaxial).

Will give it a try tonight...might as well as it's just sitting in it's box.

[mrbenn]

i got one of these and its great! and only £150 - and in black!
only a few left now

Harman Kardon HD980 | CD Player | Richer Sounds

[scorpion88]

Originally Posted by mrbenn

i got one of these and its great! and only £150 - and in black!
only a few left now

Harman Kardon HD980 | CD Player | Richer Sounds

Agreed, great player and I paid £200 some months ago.

[Zorba_8]

Originally Posted by mrbenn

i got one of these and its great! and only £150 - and in black!
only a few left now

Harman Kardon HD980 | CD Player | Richer Sounds

Originally Posted by scorpion88

Agreed, great player and I paid £200 some months ago.

Cheers guys, will check the specs out in my lunch time. Never really considered purchasing HK items before.

[cunny678]

If you dont mind second hand there are some Arcam DVD players around that support DVDA and poss SACD. I used to have a £350 Nad CD player and changed to an Arcam DV79 and have to say the sound to me is superior and much warmer than my set up with the Nad. Only paid £150 second hand and it was minty mint!!!

I mention DVDA and SACD so you can tell it was designed to play music as well and many say that ARcam DVD players are as good if not better than players at the price range you are looking at.

Just a thought

[Zorba_8]

Originally Posted by cunny678

If you dont mind second hand there are some Arcam DVD players around that support DVDA and poss SACD. I used to have a £350 Nad CD player and changed to an Arcam DV79 and have to say the sound to me is superior and much warmer than my set up with the Nad. Only paid £150 second hand and it was minty mint!!!

I mention DVDA and SACD so you can tell it was designed to play music as well and many say that ARcam DVD players are as good if not better than players at the price range you are looking at.

Just a thought

Cheers Cunny, this is another possibility I was considering when I embarked on my initial queries in the Bluray player's thread. I was looking at mayby buying a player that will do BR/DVD/CD. The conclusion was to buy separate.

A second hand CD player would have to be minty mint indeed as I would worry about the CD pick up and lense haven taken a battering.

I've got a while before I buy so it will do no harm for me to check the classified section

[Zorba_8]

Old CD player vs PS3.

I hope this attracts some response, but I just plugged in my old Yamaha CDX-496 CD player (mentioned in earlier posts) to my Yamaha AVR using analogue connectors and simultaneously played a copy of the same CD (have two copies of Jamirouqui and have copied Jamie T's Kings and Queens and Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon on the HD of the PS3) then switched between PS3 and CD player.

Sat there with a post work glass of red wine and let the music wash over me.

What I can say I heard is that the Yamaha out performed the PS3.

The notes seemed to be cut short on the PS3 and seemed more mechanical. Some of the tracks seemed more defined at times but the CD playback was more refined and rounded with notes seeming to hang a little longer as you'd expect the producer to sound. I found the CD less tiring and more natural.

A simple exercise that surprised as I thought the PS3 would sound better than the 9 year old CD player. I can only imagine how a 2009 version £300 CD player would sound?!