[GuitarGuy]

BBC iPlayer - Horizon: 2012-2013: Eat, Fast and Live Longer

[Rich G]

Watched it too and after a bit of googling found this website:
http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

I've been struggling to shift my weight so may give it a go.

[GuitarGuy]

Originally Posted by Rich G

Watched it too and after a bit of googling found this website:
http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

I've been struggling to shift my weight so may give it a go.

Let's do it, I'll start Monday on the 5 2 fast

[Trollslayer]

A good programme and I plan to have one 600 calorie day a week, see how it goes.

[Rich G]

I was going to do it daily with 16 hours fast and 8 hours feed, seems to be what alot of people are doing.

[Rich G]

Found this free ebook that describes the different types of intermittent fasting, could be worth a read

Intermittent Fasting | John Berardi Intermittent Fasting Free E-book

[Desmo]

Not read a great deal into IF but it certainly works for some people.

[TheyCallMeTJ]

I've watched the episode, thanks for posting easaglik.

Interesting stuff. But is this the the right kind of diet for sports people and body builders? I am a sportsman and I do try keep in shape with resistance workouts. I generally have low carbs in my diet (when I say low carbs I mean low complex carbs, ie starchy food, I eat as much vegetables as I can). When trying to lose body fat, I would eat 6 days low calorie and 1 day eat anything I like (with moderation). This works very well for me when losing the body fat. When I am maintaining, I just eat a steady health balance diet, (40% protein, 30 carb, 30% fat). Now this program is telling me that if I have too much protein, I increase my risks of cancer, etc. So is this program trying to say that body builders are at increased risk of cancer and other illnesses?

Another thing is fasting. I am actually a qualified PT (though not practising, I took the course for self knowledge and to train friends). What I have learnt is that starving is bad because that leads to plateauing (ie the brain knows there is a shortage of food, so tries to preserve the fat storage). But the program medical results show improvement of health and lower body fat. Definitley an eye opener but I dont feel this applies to sportsmen and bodybuilders.

But this is all interesting. This same presenter had done other health exploration programs similar to this one, and always using himself as a subject. What I find amusing is that in the previous programs he has done, he has found a solution to living a healthier lifestyle and it ends with him promising to adapt that lifestyle.

Clearly from this latest program, he never did

[GuitarGuy]

Lol! I plan on doing the 5-2 today I had 20 grams of cornflakes with a very little amount of milk, and then a cuppa soup, got another 100 kals or so left today.

[TheyCallMeTJ]

Good luck esaglik! Are you doing it to lose weight (ie body fat)? Or are you trying to adopt it for a permanent healthy lifestyle? If for losing body fat, have you measured yourseld before going on this routine? Can I suggest you measure your waist (navel level) and your neck (narrowest point) and then plug into the body fat formula:

measurements in centimeters:
%Fat = 86.010*LOG(abdomen - neck) - 70.041*LOG(height) + 30.30

This gives you BF% which generally has an accuracy of 1-3%. Then measure again in 4-6 weeks. I'd be interested to know your result

[GuitarGuy]

Originally Posted by TheyCallMeTJ

Good luck esaglik! Are you doing it to lose weight (ie body fat)? Or are you trying to adopt it for a permanent healthy lifestyle? If for losing body fat, have you measured yourseld before going on this routine? Can I suggest you measure your waist (navel level) and your neck (narrowest point) and then plug into the body fat formula:

measurements in centimeters:
%Fat = 86.010*LOG(abdomen - neck) - 70.041*LOG(height) + 30.30

This gives you BF% which generally has an accuracy of 1-3%. Then measure again in 4-6 weeks. I'd be interested to know your result

I'm going to start Monday yeah. Basically the overall goal is to get right down to 6 pack visible levels of fat so I'll be throwing some carb cycling for full feed days ect, I'll do the measurements Monday morning. I'll keep weekly records too and I'll post my results. For reference I plan on running three times a week on feed days about 4 miles at a time to get some physical in as well.

Edit: I think I'll probably adopt is part of a healthy life style too if I find it makes significant difference because I dropped to half my normal calories today to see what it'd be like, and actually it's still twice as much as I'd have on a fast day, but I worked out you can have 5 tomato cuppa soups and that's 500 kcals? So you can already see actually you can get quite full.

[TheyCallMeTJ]

Yeah I find tomato soup quite satisfying too yet low in calories. Make sure you also eat your veggies (different colours) to cover the essential vitamins and minerals that are bodies need

[GuitarGuy]

Originally Posted by TheyCallMeTJ

Yeah I find tomato soup quite satisfying too yet low in calories. Make sure you also eat your veggies (different colours) to cover the essential vitamins and minerals that are bodies need

Will do mate dw. I cover my A-Z with a multi vitamin + omega three one a day as is so anything else I take as a bonus.

[dvdphile]

I plan on doing this from tomorrow too! I'm hoping to do the alternate day diet though instead of 5/2.
I've tried something similar in the past and it did work. The beauty of alternate days is when you're on a down day tomorrow is an up so something to look forward to.
Not sure I can do 500cals though. Last time I tried the ADD I did about 1000cals instead. I might aim for 600 and see how that goes!

[GuitarGuy]

Originally Posted by dvdphile

I plan on doing this from tomorrow too! I'm hoping to do the alternate day diet though instead of 5/2.
I've tried something similar in the past and it did work. The beauty of alternate days is when you're on a down day tomorrow is an up so something to look forward to.
Not sure I can do 500cals though. Last time I tried the ADD I did about 1000cals instead. I might aim for 600 and see how that goes!

go on mate..... you can do 500, just think tomorrow ill be able to stuff my face to kingdom come!

[Solar]

I'm on my first day of this.
It's a little harder than I thought, I have now lost that "full" feeling I am used to, and every now and again I get the urge to satisfy it like I usually would by having a banana or some thing.
Not getting any massive hunger pangs as though I need a big dinner though, which is a little weird.

[Rich G]

I tried a 24 hour fast from 7pm Friday to 7pm Saturday and found it quite nice by the end, I'm normally always bloated and feel a bit sluggish but after 18 hours I felt really good

I have now started doing it daily so I fast from 8-9pm to 1pm the next day so I get a good 16+ hours fasting. I then plan on eating around 1500 - 1800 calories before starting again.

I'm 13 stone at the moment and hope to get down to around 12 stone.

[TheyCallMeTJ]

Originally Posted by Solar

I'm on my first day of this.
It's a little harder than I thought, I have now lost that "full" feeling I am used to, and every now and again I get the urge to satisfy it like I usually would by having a banana or some thing.
Not getting any massive hunger pangs as though I need a big dinner though, which is a little weird.

Are you allowed to drink water anytime? If so, that's the key to easing the hunger. Lots of water. Drinking lots of water should be an everyday thing anyway!

Also try not to think about it and be as busy as you can be, that makes time fly by quicker and also divert your mind away.

Good luck all with the fasting scheme

[Solar]

Originally Posted by TheyCallMeTJ

Good luck all with the fasting scheme

Thanks
I drink plenty of water all the time anyway, but yeah the book I read recommended you drink water to get over the hunger pangs.

[ajdj1]

I'm trying this out too after watching the programme. Initially I was sceptical as I have inadvertently done similar things in the past and ended up craving sugary things to break the fast! Did 18 hour fast today and will see if I can keep it going for the next fortnight. Looking for between 14-18 hours fast every day. My body fat is 23.3% (tape measure method and I'm female). 61kg and 5' 7" tall, I'm not overweight but looking to lose some body fat and tone up.

I found a good video on YouTube which is worth watching-

YouTube - Fasting or 5 Meals Per Day?

[Solar]

Brilliant video, really puts this method into perspective.

How is everyone doing with this btw?
I managed 23 hours yesterday, and today I feel over the moon. I had breakfast around 11:30 and am still not hungry.
Also, at the gym today I felt as though I could just keep going and going, not at all lethargic or sluggish. I have a feeling it has some thing to do with less food/extra weight in my body.
I just feel so much better overall.

[MikeTV]

I'm doing the 5-2 fasting even though I am not overweight, but for the other health benefits. It's week two, and in my second fast. The first fast went well, although I did experience a headache and pressure behind the eyes - but I doubt this has anything to do with it! I did feel a little restless/fidgety though.

Generally, I only eat two full meals a day anyway (I skip breakfast), although I do usually like a latte in the morning, and cups of tea with milk throughout the day. Don't believe the nonsense about breakfast being the most important meal of the day. It is about what you eat over weeks, rather than hours that is important. But obviously, if you do a lot of manual work, you might prefer a big calorific breakfast. Each to his own.

When fasting I choose to skip the evening meal. Yesterday I had a small snack in the evening because I felt some pangs, and probably hadn't eaten my quota at lunchtime.

Having never calorie counted, I am struggling a bit in knowing what amounts 600 calories. But I am trying to take into account things like mugs of tea.

I think there is a lot of misinformation about calories anyway. I was shocked to learn that a small grainy health bar was 120 calories! Which got me thinking about the difference between digested calories and actual calories. It turns out that some foods are terrible, with 100% of the calories being fully digested, with others providing a lot less calories than the label would suggest. For example, chocolate would be entirely metabolised into calories, but a bag of nuts might result in 25% less calories. Generally, cooked/processed foodstuffs and those high in sugar, salt and fat, should be avoided - irrespective of the calories on the labels. Salads, raw, lean, unsweetened foods are better, when watching calories. For example, there is estimated to be 50% less calories in a raw egg (when digested) than in a cooked one! This is simply because it is easier for the body to digest, at the molecular level.

I had no idea that calorie counting was this complicated, but it may contribute to why some people on calorie controlled diets consistently fail.

Recently, I also heard that exercise levels have little to do with weight/obesity - and the arguments were pretty convincing. The research was suggesting it was all down to the food we ate (avoid starch, glucose, and carb-rich foods). We've all been brainwashed into thinking it is all about fatty food, and buying products that are "fat-free" - and thinking that they are healthy. But sugar and potatoes are fat-free too! There is nothing wrong with exercising for health benefits (it's encouraged!), but it's the diet that is the main factor. Anyway, that all seems to align with my own personal experience.

It would be nice if we could easily monitor our blood levels. I know my cholesterol was slightly above the recommended level last year (although below average). It would be interesting to know what effect fasting was having on this, and my IGF-1 levels. I have started weighing myself, to make sure I'm not losing too much.

On the willpower front, I've not had difficulty. But prior to this, I was already aware of not eating until you feel "full". That just means you are "stuffed" and probably over-eating. You should generally be aiming to eat enough, rather than feeling full. I also believe that consistently eating until "full" expands your eating capacity, and makes you want to eat more each time. But this is just a theory. I am also aware that there are remote tribes that deliberately eat 80% less than full, for cultural reasons. Research has shown they live longer, perhaps by as much as 20%, compared neighbouring tribes with similar genetics, lifestyles and resources. This suggests a real connection between longevity and calorie restriction.

I was quite surprised that the Panorama programme was advocating fasting, quite so blazingly, without much in the way of any health warnings. I wonder if there are any unforseen consequences? For example, nutritional deficiencies that might arise in some cases, or elevated levels of something else. At the very least, it's difficult to consume your recommended 5-a-day in just 500/600 calories. It seems to me that the long-term consequences might not be very well understood, yet.

[wookielover]

im looking in to the 16hr fast 8hr feed style. Ive read that other people have had good results so might be worth a shot.
Ive done the whole little and often approach for ages and i dont see the harm in switches , plus the idea of cramming 3500 cals in to 8 hours seems interesting !
i always work out between 7 - 9 pm pm so would fast from 10 pm till 3pm . eat then eat again after training . id have small ish meal at 3 1500 cals or so and the bulk of my daily intake coming after training.

[silent ninja]

One point he did make which is very true is that when you're fasting you aren't constantly hungry. The hunger pangs come in waves, maybe 3 times a day depending on the person and they don't last long. Also initially you'll feel it more but the more you fast the easier it becomes.

[wookielover]

Might give it a try in two weeks.
Today I've gone crazy eating the following

2 x banana
4 x chicken satay
1 x small chicken tikka wrap
Sweet potato with beef casserole
Bag of peanuts
Small pack of tesco salmon "sushi"
Snickers bar
Mars bar
Oat biscuit
3 litre of water

Still to come

Shepherds pie made with sweet potato

I should point out that I've been and am normally very very strict with my diet , over the past two weeks I've given up milk, tea, coffee and bread.
Today was just crazy. I've been going mental in the gym over the past week lifting weights at points twice a day as well as my martial art and fitness classes. Plus I'm half way through a cycle of pro hormones and they make you eat like crazy . God i feel fat !!

[dvdphile]

By Pro hormones do you mean anabolic steroids???

[wookielover]

Originally Posted by dvdphile

By Pro hormones do you mean anabolic steroids???

i mean pro hormones. pro mag 35 from dragon nutrition to be precise. you say tomato i say tomato !

[ajdj1]

Originally Posted by wookielover

i mean pro hormones. pro mag 35 from dragon nutrition to be precise. you say tomato i say tomato !

Not about to start making judgemental comments on this as its your body. I'm sure you realise that they are hepatoxic (liver damaging). Hopefully you are taking milk thistle or something similar alongside to counter that?

Back on topic. I'm on day 4 and everything is still going well. I've generally been fasting between 8pm - 2pm (18 hours) with a 6 hour feeding window.

My BMR is 2228 calories/day and I would say I'm definitely under this, especially as I've had minimum carbs, no processed or sugary foods and loads of fresh salad and veg. My diet is currently the cleanest it's ever been and whilst it's early days it seems to be all im wanting and really satisfying.

One thing I have noticed is how slowly I'm eating meals compared to before. My body also seems to be telling me that I've had enough when I'm half way through (even after a 16 hour fast) I'm not feeling any hunger pains whatsoever.

I will take all my measurements and weight again on Tuesday (1 week in). I will also resume exercising then as well to see if there is any difference in how I feel and what and when I need to eat.

[wookielover]

Originally Posted by ajdj1

Not about to start making judgemental comments on this as its your body. I'm sure you realise that they are hepatoxic (liver damaging). Hopefully you are taking milk thistle or something similar alongside to counter that?

Back on topic. I'm on day 4 and everything is still going well. I've generally been fasting between 8pm - 2pm (18 hours) with a 6 hour feeding window.

My BMR is 2228 calories/day and I would say I'm definitely under this, especially as I've had minimum carbs, no processed or sugary foods and loads of fresh salad and veg. My diet is currently the cleanest it's ever been and whilst it's early days it seems to be all im wanting and really satisfying.

One thing I have noticed is how slowly I'm eating meals compared to before. My body also seems to be telling me that I've had enough when I'm half way through (even after a 16 hour fast) I'm not feeling any hunger pains whatsoever.

I will take all my measurements and weight again on Tuesday (1 week in). I will also resume exercising then as well to see if there is any difference in how I feel and what and when I need to eat.

they pass through the liver twice. I've had bloods taken before and ill get them done after. i haven't had alcohol in nearly a year. i take a liver protection sup. generally there are very few risks and some great benefits. this is probably for another thread .

[silent ninja]

What's the difference between fasting 8pm-2pm or simply not eating breakfast one day? They sound the same. Serious question.