Just how good are good headphones?

Pulsar · 11-01-2009, 4:40 PM

Hello,

I've been thinking about trying some decent quality headphones for a while and have finally started to do something about it. I'm planning on getting some Senn HD650s (how original) along with an entry level headphone amp. I plan on using the headphones for a variety of tasks including music, movies, TV and gaming.

Whilst I wait to find the right second hand kit, I was wondering how good this level of kit should sound compared to traditional speakers and amps? I know this kind of thing is hard to quantify, but what level of 2 channel gear do the 650s equate to?

I'd also love to hear from anyone that uses the 650s for movies and whether they use Dolby Headphone or just plain stereo and how they feel it compares to a true 5.1 setup.

Cheers

Rob

ell-ess-dee · 11-01-2009, 9:14 PM

There is no comparison, it's a total different kettle of fish. There is no way you can get speaker sound from a headphone..

Even though I love my 650s the only reason I have them is that I can't setup my speakers. I'm moving house in a couple of months though, so that's all gonna change - and to be honest I can't wait.. Back to feeling the music instead of just hearing it.

**Steven** · 11-01-2009, 10:05 PM

Its the whole package. I am going to answer in a general fashion as there are plenty of HD650 love if you search

Headphone - well they deliver the sound waves to your ears so of course matter. And they certainly do make a difference as you up your spending. Quality rather than quantity as you do. For example at a lower budget you get boomy, muddy bass. This may not be immediately obvious until you experience a higher end headphone which may not have the same quantity of bass, but has better quality of bass which delivers an overall superior sound
Also as you go higher up the chain details across the spectrum (bass, mids, highs) should increase in a good pair of cans. I do not like to limit details to just the highs as it can be attributed to the whole sound

Headphones have different degrees of sound stage and presentation. My ESW9s (portable full size) present mids and vocals slightly forward and close (intimate/claustrophobic)

A good amp can help a headphone shine by eeking out that extra by accentuating the good points (and my portable amp does increase the sound stage re: the above)

Re: speakers. By definition you cannot achieve the openness and sound stage in headphones as you do in speakers. But I prefer the "me" feeling

I've demo'd "surround sound" headphones before. They are a nice attempt but at the same time plastic if you will. Like wax work models, the eyes give it away

That's enough typing, I'll let others take over

cribeiro · 11-01-2009, 10:28 PM

Not really comparable, since you will miss the physical part and the spatiality of music.
But in all other regards, Sennheiser 650 with high-endish amplification will give a sound quality that only systems costing several thousands of pounds can achieve. The precision and dynamics in the whole frequency range result in an experience that I have not had yet with loudspeakers. And don't forget the room, which is in most cases the biggest drawback of loudspeaker listening and plays a mayor role. You just leave the room out of the equation with headphones.

Pulsar · 12-01-2009, 7:54 AM

Thanks for those replies, I do appreciate your input greatly.

I'm still going to forge ahead with my purchases to complete this 'test' as I'm very interested in hearing a good set of 'phones. The reason I ask about movies is becuase I have a project coming up to convert my loft room into a cinema and I had the crazy thought that I could base it around headphones for the audio. This would save me the worry of sound transmitting through the whole house and also gives me the chance to listen at my preferred volume level and my wife at an alternative (read lower) level.

I have owned a variety of low/mid range kit such as DD15 sub, BlueSky Active monitors, Genelecs and the usual electronics so I have a fair grounding for comparisson. I'll happily report back on my findings once I've had some time with them.

Cheers

Rob

-Ad- · 13-01-2009, 8:47 AM

For me you have to spend a lot more on a speaker setup if you want it to match a good headphone setup. But then again they are both very different, headphones being inimate, but speakers being expansive. I love both

Check out the darkvoice 336se tube amp off ebay and a seller called jasmine. Hoping to pickup some 650s and one of these amps this year. The combo is highly regarded over at head-fi, plus you can tube-roll (try different tubes) with older NOS tubes from the 50s, 60s etc to find the right sound for you.

Pulsar · 13-01-2009, 8:29 PM

Ad,

Funny you should mention the darkvoice, I've just bought one from the classifieds. It is just a standard 336 (non SE), and comes with 9 or so tubes so I'll have plenty to play with. I hope the amp and my new 650s should be here tomorrow - I'm pretty excited.

I'll let you know my thoughts in due course.

Cheers

Rob

Boink! · 13-01-2009, 8:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Ad-

For me you have to spend a lot more on a speaker setup if you want it to match a good headphone setup. But then again they are both very different, headphones being inimate, but speakers being expansive. I love both

Check out the darkvoice 336se tube amp off ebay and a seller called jasmine. Hoping to pickup some 650s and one of these amps this year. The combo is highly regarded over at head-fi, plus you can tube-roll (try different tubes) with older NOS tubes from the 50s, 60s etc to find the right sound for you.

I 'upgraded' my 8 year old Senn HD580s with the HD650 cable and HD600 grills (to improve the sound) and also managed to buy a, now sadly discontinued, Darkvoice 332 valve amp (and a bundle of extra valves, courtesy of headfi forums) and this combo sings very sweetly. As the HD650s can be bought for £180 now, I may grab a pair of those as well. The people that designed the Darkvoice amps used the HD650 as a reference headphone, so you can expect a DV amp and HD650 to have great synergy.

**Steven** · 13-01-2009, 9:00 PM

Upgraded your HD600 grills? Do tell

I read one of the cheaper upgrades for the HD600 is to use the HD650 cable, but I want a 3.5mm termination... I know its a minor thing to use an adaptor but all the same...

Pulsar · 14-01-2009, 6:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boink!

I 'upgraded' my 8 year old Senn HD580s with the HD650 cable and HD600 grills (to improve the sound) and also managed to buy a, now sadly discontinued, Darkvoice 332 valve amp (and a bundle of extra valves, courtesy of headfi forums) and this combo sings very sweetly. As the HD650s can be bought for £180 now, I may grab a pair of those as well. The people that designed the Darkvoice amps used the HD650 as a reference headphone, so you can expect a DV amp and HD650 to have great synergy.

That is great news. The amp arrived today (yay for the forums) but the 650s didn't (boo for Play.com).

Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

What are your valve preferences for your Darkvoice?

Rob

Pulsar · 18-01-2009, 5:04 PM

Hi,

I can now begin to answer a few of my own questions. HD650s came on Thursday and have had a good 60+ hours of run in. For music I think they sounds great, for movies I wouldn't bother with them at all. I'm pretty sure it isn't a fault of the 'phones, more a simpe fact of not having 5 dedicated speakers singing in harmony which I am used to. I also think that the Senns are so revealing that they made the relatively low quality DD track sound flat.

Not sure if I'm keeping them yet or not.

Cheers

Rob

cribeiro · 18-01-2009, 5:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pulsar

Hi,

I can now begin to answer a few of my own questions. HD650s came on Thursday and have had a good 60+ hours of run in. For music I think they sounds great, for movies I wouldn't bother with them at all. I'm pretty sure it isn't a fault of the 'phones, more a simpe fact of not having 5 dedicated speakers singing in harmony which I am used to. I also think that the Senns are so revealing that they made the relatively low quality DD track sound flat.

Not sure if I'm keeping them yet or not.

Cheers

Rob

There are dolby headphone processors you can put between your source and your headphone amplifier. They will mix up the 5.1 channels into two so that regular stereo headphones give you an impression of surround sound. I have not tried them yet, but they are supposed to work rather well.

-Ad- · 19-01-2009, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pulsar

Ad,

Funny you should mention the darkvoice, I've just bought one from the classifieds. It is just a standard 336 (non SE), and comes with 9 or so tubes so I'll have plenty to play with. I hope the amp and my new 650s should be here tomorrow - I'm pretty excited.

I'll let you know my thoughts in due course.

Cheers

Rob

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boink!

I 'upgraded' my 8 year old Senn HD580s with the HD650 cable and HD600 grills (to improve the sound) and also managed to buy a, now sadly discontinued, Darkvoice 332 valve amp (and a bundle of extra valves, courtesy of headfi forums) and this combo sings very sweetly. As the HD650s can be bought for £180 now, I may grab a pair of those as well. The people that designed the Darkvoice amps used the HD650 as a reference headphone, so you can expect a DV amp and HD650 to have great synergy.

OMG soo much DV love, and purchased 2nd hand with tubes to roll. I have missed out lately

Would love to hear your impressions

steeevo1 · 19-01-2009, 2:42 PM

hi there, just read your question re the headphones, the 650s are truly stunning with music especially sacd discs, but sadly they do not perform with movie soundtracks as they are not classed as 5.1 headphones, there are 5.1 headphones available and i have tried them but you do not get the spaciousness you require for home cinema in my opinion.
best thing to do is try as many sets as you can until you find what suits you , hopefully this may have helped
regards
steve

KiLLiNG-TiME · 20-01-2009, 11:39 AM

I love the total immersion that head phones give you ..I love my Grado RS2's (with music played on Vinyl) got them second hand, well worth what I ££, when playing War of the World's in the dark I swear am a 41 year old feeling like the 12 year old that I was when I first heard War of the Worlds on headphones at my uncles on vinyl of course, that's how good headphones can be, of course its all subjective.

Arcam_boy · 20-01-2009, 5:49 PM

To answer your question ...... with the right set up headphone can be amazing and certainly compete with high end hi fi although as already said you don't quite get the large sound stage and positioning of a well set up 2 channel system.

I love the fact my headphone system only consists on a DACMagic, Graham Slee amp and the headphones itself and takes up very little space compared to a normal hi fi system. I can also listen at whatever volume I like when I like without disturbing anyone and that's probably the best part for me.

I used to have some B&W 805S speakers with Musical Fidelity A5 separates and apart from the sound stage and bass impact my headphone rig is certainly as good if not better but for films I'd certainly opt for a true 5.1 system over headphones.