[MIB]

Starting researching decent headphones and going to try to audition Grado SR60/80 and Sennheiser HD595/650 but finding it difficult to find a dealer with all on demo. Was going to settle for the SR60/80 or HD595 at around £80-£100 but noticed play.com have the HD650 for £180 so tempted to go the whole hog and avoid latter upgraditus. Problem with that is many threads suggest that the HD650 need a decent headphone amp.

If I don't get an amp immediately would I be better off with the SR80 / HD595, or will the HD650 still sound better with no amp and have even more potential when I finally get an amp.

Source will be macbook or a new ipod. Listened to my PX100 with an iPod mini / macbook and through my Onkyo 805 and the IPOD seemed the best so I assume the headphone amp in the 805 isn't great and the DAC in the macbook is probably rubbish. So think I'll also need a DAC....

... as usual a simple £100 purchase becomes more complicated and expensive when the AVForums search facility is used

Noticed the Fubar III has USB Dac and amp built in, would this do justice to the HD650 or should I be looking at a GS Solo and separate DAC like the new CA Dac or Beresford DAC???
Fubar III USB DAC and Headphone Amplifer : Bypass your computer's soundcard The Fu...

[HiFi Headphones]

I haven't properly auditioned Fubar, but I'm highly doubtful that it's comparable with the Graham Slee Solo or the new Graham Slee Novo.

Both of these amps are able to drive the Sennheiser HD650 with real authority. The Graham Slee amplifiers add a bit of depth to the bass response and really open up the mid-range and highs on the HD650. In my opinion these amps convert the HD650 from a quite nice headphone to a lively and dynamic sounding headphone.

[MIB]

Thanks for the advise.

Have you listened to the HD595 vs HD650 without a dedicated headphone amp?

Also notice you sell the Pro-ject Head Box II - will this be much of an upgrade for the HD650?

[alnwrd]

If you are anywhere near Peterborough I can thouroughly recommend these people

Analogue Seduction

[MIB]

Sennheisher HD650 ordered and Zero DAC/Amp purchased from the forum

Had a demo of some Grados and Sennheisers and the Senns were a clear winner for my tastes (and the 650 are worth the extra £80 IMHO if you can stretch the budget - also saves the what-ifs and future upgrades). As most reviews say this is a subjective area, both brands sound great but have quite different signature sound so I fully recommend anyone looking to buy quality headphones to get a demo first.

[oldson]

Originally Posted by MIB

Sennheisher HD650 ordered and Zero DAC/Amp purchased from the forum

Had a demo of some Grados and Sennheisers and the Senns were a clear winner for my tastes (and the 650 are worth the extra £80 IMHO if you can stretch the budget - also saves the what-ifs and future upgrades). As most reviews say this is a subjective area, both brands sound great but have quite different signature sound so I fully recommend anyone looking to buy quality headphones to get a demo first.

i am also thinking of getting the 650's.
i started with the zero dac/amp, modded it, now replaced it with MF vdac.
am using little dot mkv SS amp at the moment. but have ordered the new GS solo SRG intro.
if you are like me you will constantly be looking to upgrade. its an annoyingly addictive hobby!
is your zero a "stock" model or has it been modded? brilliant bit of kit, even if considered "budget". but the senns will show up a poor quality source.
my audio technica ath-a900's are definitely more forgiving!
looking forward to hearing your comments.

[MIB]

Originally Posted by oldson

i am also thinking of getting the 650's.
i started with the zero dac/amp, modded it, now replaced it with MF vdac.
am using little dot mkv SS amp at the moment. but have ordered the new GS solo SRG intro.
if you are like me you will constantly be looking to upgrade. its an annoyingly addictive hobby!
is your zero a "stock" model or has it been modded? brilliant bit of kit, even if considered "budget". but the senns will show up a poor quality source.
my audio technica ath-a900's are definitely more forgiving!
looking forward to hearing your comments.

I think the Zero is a stock model
http://www.avforums.com/forums/ampli...b-pc-link.html

What did you think to the zero vs LD5 & V-Dac?

I thought about the graham sell novo at £230 but then I'd need a DAC aswell and it was all starting to add up. Think I'll try the Zero for a while, see how I get on with headphone listening and take i from there.

Have you demoed the HD650, if so how do they compare to your a900's

[jon1]

Originally Posted by MIB

I think the Zero is a stock model
http://www.avforums.com/forums/ampli...b-pc-link.html

What did you think to the zero vs LD5 & V-Dac?

I thought about the graham sell novo at £230 but then I'd need a DAC as well and it was all starting to add up. Think I'll try the Zero for a while, see how I get on with headphone listening and take i from there.

Have you demoed the HD650, if so how do they compare to your a900's

Hi mib without demo of some these headphone amps you are taking pot luck ....just had a hand build preamp converted Severn years old to take a headphone jack..not a dac insight just op amps all the best stuff went in to the pre-amp when i had it built by a mate of mine ...who built all my mono blocks...back to the headphone amps..I tried some of the headphone amps round at his house...and some new that his amp working on .the sound was excerllent...As for the pre-am i had converted that worked a treat..It all depends on the components that have gone to build some of these headphone amps


jon

[MIB]

Originally Posted by jon1

Hi mib without demo of some these headphone amps you are taking pot luck ....just had a hand build preamp converted Severn years old to take a headphone jack..not a dac insight just op amps all the best stuff went in to the pre-amp when i had it built by a mate of mine ...who built all my mono blocks...back to the headphone amps..I tried some of the headphone amps round at his house...and some new that his amp working on .the sound was excerllent...As for the pre-am i had converted that worked a treat..It all depends on the components that have gone to build some of these headphone amps


jon

Hi jon

I know what you mean about needing to try any AV gear before you can be sure. Think I'll see how I get on with the Zero for a while but might try a Graham Slee at some point as I've read they have good synergy with Sennheiser and I've seen them offered with a full refund if not entirely happy (which is usually a very good sign)

My HD650's arrived from Amazon today but sadly they'll be going back as I've managed to source some s/h HD600 from the forums which by most accounts are very similar to the 650's (and saved me £95)

[jon1]

Originally Posted by MIB

Hi jon

I know what you mean about needing to try any AV gear before you can be sure. Think I'll see how I get on with the Zero for a while but might try a Graham Slee at some point as I've read they have good synergy with Sennheiser and I've seen them offered with a full refund if not entirely happy (which is usually a very good sign)

My HD650's arrived from Amazon today but sadly they'll be going back as I've managed to source some s/h HD600 from the forums which by most accounts are very similar to the 650's (and saved me £95:thumbs up

Hi mate you will not go wrong with the HD600 my mate has a pair..have tried them out spot on...be careful of the dimension returns syndromegood luck

[Arcam_boy]

My 650's sound wonderful with my fubar II DAC and graham slee solo with upgraded PSU1 power supply. I'm going to eventually upgrade the power cables on my equipment and headphone cable to try and squeeze the best from my system.

I'm currently looking at a few valve amps but its so hard to get a demo I'm not too keen on blowing £500 on an amp I've never listened too!

[jon1]

Originally Posted by Arcam_boy

My 650's sound wonderful with my fubar II DAC and graham slee solo with upgraded PSU1 power supply. I'm going to eventually upgrade the power cables on my equipment and headphone cable to try and squeeze the best from my system.

I'm currently looking at a few valve amps but its so hard to get a demo I'm not too keen on blowing £500 on an amp I've never listened too!

Do you think the valve amps will be a bit warmer in the sound department?




jon

[jon1]

Originally Posted by Arcam_boy

My 650's sound wonderful with my fubar II DAC and graham slee solo with upgraded PSU1 power supply. I'm going to eventually upgrade the power cables on my equipment and headphone cable to try and squeeze the best from my system.

I'm currently looking at a few valve amps but its so hard to get a demo I'm not too keen on blowing £500 on an amp I've never listened too!

Is the power supply regulated?




jon

[MIB]

Originally Posted by jon1

Hi mate you will not go wrong with the HD600 my mate has a pair..have tried them out spot on

Cool

Originally Posted by jon1

be careful of the dimension returns syndrome

[MIB]

Originally Posted by Arcam_boy

My 650's sound wonderful with my fubar II DAC and graham slee solo with upgraded PSU1 power supply. I'm going to eventually upgrade the power cables on my equipment and headphone cable to try and squeeze the best from my system.

I'm currently looking at a few valve amps but its so hard to get a demo I'm not too keen on blowing £500 on an amp I've never listened too!

Started having a read about value amps over at head-fi but it blew my mind

Please give me a nudge if you decide to sell the Slee on the forum

[alexs2]

Originally Posted by MIB

Started having a read about value amps over at head-fi but it blew my mind

Please give me a nudge if you decide to sell the Slee on the forum

The thing about valve amps is that not all of them sound warm,and certainly very few sound slow and cuddly(!).

The variation is sound between different types of tube,even different makes of the same tube,and different amp designs can be very marked.

It leads to a lot of uncertainty about what you may be buying,and makes the choices difficult at best......I've used a few amps with my setup,both tubed and solid state,and settled with a single ended triode tube amp.

The USA is rather better served for amps of all types than we are,and also with a large number of people who modify or change the tubes in their amps,and the forums there reflect that variety.

[-Ad-]

Originally Posted by Arcam_boy

My 650's sound wonderful with my fubar II DAC and graham slee solo with upgraded PSU1 power supply. I'm going to eventually upgrade the power cables on my equipment and headphone cable to try and squeeze the best from my system.

I'm currently looking at a few valve amps but its so hard to get a demo I'm not too keen on blowing £500 on an amp I've never listened too!

Darkvoice 336se off jasmine seller on ebay + £40 on some tubes to roll

Under £200 and should be a good complement to the slee. Honestly I loved the slee when I heard it through the 650, but can't justify that much on an amp for headphones.

[Arcam_boy]

i was seriously considering the darkvoice amp before the slee but read a few stories about them that put me off and with no UK supplier I opted for the slee which Sennhesier use to show off there headphones!

i think if i was going to buy a valve headphone amp it'd be something from wooaudio or earmax which would fit in my price range i don't think i'll sell the slee for a long time as it sounds so good although sometimes i wish for a little more bass but maybe thats down to the 650's or source??

[jon1]

MIB

The biggest gains you will get is when you first set out to upgrade to a headphone amp..after that you will get a bit more of a gain in the performance if you upgrade again..Then it starts to get expensive to get a little bit more performance..so on ..You spend a evern greater amount to get a fraction of performance...That is what you call dimension returns..the more you put in the less you get out for the money you have spent



jon

[mont1uk]

I bought a pair of HD650's last week upgraded from HD555's and now Im seriously considering getting the Slee Novo or maybe even the cheaper Solo having looked around. I was originally going to get the project headbox II but ive read a few opinions that said it didn't really add much to the sound. I figure if i outlay a few hundred to begin with i should see a significant difference from using my X-Fi into Logitech Z5500 control centre at the moment. Ill let you know how I get on, im not really sure which Amp id be better off with, the Novo or Solo but ill have to take the plunge sooner or later.

[MIB]

Originally Posted by mont1uk

I bought a pair of HD650's last week upgraded from HD555's and now Im seriously considering getting the Slee Novo or maybe even the cheaper Solo having looked around. I was originally going to get the project headbox II but ive read a few opinions that said it didn't really add much to the sound. I figure if i outlay a few hundred to begin with i should see a significant difference from using my X-Fi into Logitech Z5500 control centre at the moment. Ill let you know how I get on, im not really sure which Amp id be better off with, the Novo or Solo but ill have to take the plunge sooner or later.

I've read a few less than glowing reports on the headbox II but then it is only about £75. I'm still very tempted to go for a slee novo (the novo is the cheaper model) after I've tried the zero for a few months.

[chum_2000_uk]

Originally Posted by MIB

I've read a few less than glowing reports on the headbox II but then it is only about £75. I'm still very tempted to go for a slee novo (the novo is the cheaper model) after I've tried the zero for a few months.

Sell the zero to me then get yourself a Novo... you know you want to

[MIB]

Originally Posted by chum_2000_uk

Sell the zero to me then get yourself a Novo... you know you want to

I saw your wanted ad - I'd consider selling (obviously via the classifieds) after I've given it a try for a couple of weeks.

Need to see if I have the funds for a Graham Slee Novo and Cambridge Audio Dacmagic Will be interesting to see how much of a step up this £430 combo would be over the £95 zero dac/amp.

[chum_2000_uk]

You got your headphones and DAC yet MIB?

[MIB]

Zero arrived safely and in the process of burning in. So far impressed - certainly a big step up from using ipod/macbook or onkyo receiver. For £95 I'm a happy man but I'm sure the 600's could sound even better...

I'm enjoying music on my £180 zero / HD600 combo significantly more than on my previous attempt at a decent speaker setup costing more than 4 times as much.

btw taking a usb feed from my macbook to the included usb to optical converter sounds better than just a straight optical feed from the macbook - any ideas why?

[chum_2000_uk]

Originally Posted by MIB

Zero arrived safely and in the process of burning in. So far impressed - certainly a big step up from using ipod/macbook or onkyo receiver. For £95 I'm a happy man but I'm sure the 600's could sound even better...

I'm enjoying music on my £180 zero / HD600 combo significantly more than on my previous attempt at a decent speaker setup costing more than 4 times as much.

btw taking a usb feed from my macbook to the included usb to optical converter sounds better than just a straight optical feed from the macbook - any ideas why?

What speakers did you go for in your other setup? I was thinking of getting a new AV receiver and speakers, but was probably going to go really budget and get some Jamo A102s and a Sony DG820. May put that on the backburner for a while though and see what comes of this sudden headphone fixation I have!

I have ordered a Zero from China now, I'm preying it turns up in one piece and working! I'm already tempted by another Amp/DAC combo though - the Audio-GD Compass which is due out soon. Its apparently going to be very similar to a highly modded Zero, and although its basically twice the price there is a good chance it will be worth it! So I may sell the Zero and go for the Compass instead while it is at its initial promotional price.

Is it TOSLink from the macbook MIB? Could there be some sort of processing going on that isn't happening when you use USB? Many people seem to think that optical gives better results than USB from what I have read, and coaxial is meant to be more preferable again. So thats pretty strange!

[steeevo1]

hi there
just a quick note, if you can run to the 650,s i dont think you will be dissapointed, they are a stunning sounding headphone and when paired wiuth the russ andrews cable upgrade they blow you away, amped or not, just my opinion but well worth the extrea i think without going mad for the grados that will cast lots more
regards
steve

[dotbenjamin]

I was tempted by the Zero DAC, but the lack non-English manufacturer and eBay-only supply in the UK made me nervous. Although the amplifier in the TC-7510 is supposedly not as good as the amp in the Zero, I've heard really good things about the TC-7510 DAC.

As I will eventually be using whichever DAC I buy as a source for my main setup (when I get a decent job and can afford a decent amplifer/bookends), I decided to go with the Beresford. The reports I've heard of HD600s/650s sounding great with the Beresford only helped cement my opinion.

[chum_2000_uk]

Originally Posted by dotbenjamin

I was tempted by the Zero DAC, but the lack non-English manufacturer and eBay-only supply in the UK made me nervous. Although the amplifier in the TC-7510 is supposedly not as good as the amp in the Zero, I've heard really good things about the TC-7510 DAC.

As I will eventually be using whichever DAC I buy as a source for my main setup (when I get a decent job and can afford a decent amplifer/bookends), I decided to go with the Beresford. The reports I've heard of HD600s/650s sounding great with the Beresford only helped cement my opinion.

I looked at the Beresford, and chose the Zero over it. Yes you have to order it from China and yes there have been plenty of people that have had problems with the Zero but when you think about the sheer volume of Zeros that have been produced this probably isn't a silly percentage. For the money I paid (just over £1oo delivered) I really cant complain. For that price, if something goes wrong I will try and repair it myself.

Just received my Zero on Friday and after putting maybe 30 hours on it thus far it is starting to sound great! I may look to get an Audio-GD Compass to replace it pending reviews, as this unit sounds like it could be a real bargain at its introductory price. Otherwise I will keep the Zero and try a few mods such as HDAM and possibly a few other bits and bobs depending on how brave I am feeling.

[dotbenjamin]

Aside from the £40 saving in price, what made you choose the Zero? I like the reassurance of knowing the Beresford is made and sold practically just down the road.

You mentioned upgrades... did you pick the Zero particular because it's upgradable? Or for other reasons?