[Arcam_boy]

Hi,

I've been using my powermac g4's internal sound card with my Sennheiser HD650's and thought it sounded ok but knew I could achieve more.

I was seriously considering buying a darkvoice amp but didn't want to mess around with importing and swapping valves etc so I've just purchased a brand new graham slee solo intro.

I know its the intro version, but the sound hasn't improved one bit. I've tried a variety of songs from Amy Winehouse which sounded just the same. I'm not listening to Kanye Wests Love Lockdown, a song which has awesome bass, but it sounds no different what so ever when being driven from the solo to the g4

I'm using an m audio 24/96 sound card/kimber 1011 interconnect and graham slee solo intro amp through some sennhesier hd650 cans with standard cabling. Songs being played are itunes lossless.

Will the graham slee improve over time or have I just wasted £350?

Thanks

edit: just read it should be powered for 72 hours before sounding its best so hopefully it'll improve over the next few days

[trailer]

If it doesn't sound any better after 72 hours I'd be getting a refund.

Have you tried firing the soundcard into your MF DAC then headphoning it off your MF amps as a comparison?

I'm not familiar with the m audio soundcard but your sound will certainly depend on the quality of the DAC on the card.

An alternative would be to get a separate DAC with a headphone socket. Try a Beresford.

Hopefully 72 hours will bring improvements first.

Oh, and if you haven't already, get an airport express and connect that up to the DAC.

[Arcam_boy]

Thanks for the reply.

Plenty of options there for me to consider

The m audio 24/96 is regarded as being a fairly decent sound card. I'm certainly hoping it'll improve as it should without a doubt sound better than the standard 3.5mm out from the powermac.

I was expecting an instant improvement but it honestly sounds just the same.

I'm not wanting to buy a separate cd player as the headphones are only for when I'm on my PC to listen to songs from my itunes library. I also know the PSU1 will improve the sound as well but at the moment I'm not wanting to spend any more money if this is the improvement I'm going to get.

[BigTone]

I have a pair of HD 650's and the Slee Novo amp (which is the new intro Slee amp, its on loan atm) and it does a decent job of driving the 650's. I'm surprised you say that ther is no difference, as the 650's do like an amp driving them, and I see your using apple lossless so your source should be ok.

I've not heard the m audio SC, so I've no idea if thats where the problem lies, is it an internal or external SC? Sound difference is a funny thing, especially when one 'expects' to hear a big change and then there isn't such a change. What I noticed when I amped my 650's was the detail in the songs was clearer, the instruments all seperated that little bit more, the attack of a kick drum tighter etc, and not a 'night/day' type of change.

Spend a bit more time with your new amp, do some critical listening, and see if you find finds have changed but only in a number of little (often critical) ways.

One other thing to try is use a different source to your amp, like an ipod or such like, and see how that fares.

My main headamp is a darkvoice 332 btw, and boy is that sweet with the 650's - a bit of hassle yes, but worth it.

Cheers

BT

[cribeiro]

I suggest that you try them with a good cd player, which will tell you where the problem lies.

Regarding the music out of your laptop, are you using the line-out or the headphone out? If the latter, I wouldn't be surprised, it is the same with the Ipod, which I read sounds good when using line-out, but terrible with the headphone out.

The Slee should be an amazing amp (I was tempted to buy it, but decided I prefer valves), and I am surprised that you hear no improvement.

[Arcam_boy]

They do sound slightly clearer but for how big a change I was expecting the difference is certainly very poor.

The sound card is an internal PC card with RCA connections. Its a pretty good sound card and certainly sounded good when played through my actual hi fi system.

I love the senns but the amp just doesn't seem to do much for them. The bass is ok but it isn't exactly very deep but is nice and tight.

I've had the amp running continuously now since around 4.30pm so only another 69 hours to go to see how its bedded in

[BigTone]

From experience, even the best PC soundcard, running in analogue mode, isn't up to much. There are simply far to many compromises inside of the PC box. I think you'd have a new world of sound with either a USB DAC or a different source.

Back to the Slee - these amps are known for the neutrality, the sound shouldn't be shaped by the amp, but by the cans and the source. I find that the Novo amp doesn't 'sparkly' with the sehn's - but its a good clean sound.

But your main problem is the source, the amp will only amp the input, and if the input is compromised, then thats what gets amped. Your SC might sound nice on a big hi-fi , but thats maybe becasue your masking the limitations, if I listen to my PC soundcard it basically sounds ok with speakers but horrid with headphones.

Try the amp/cans with a better source and see if that works for you.

BT

PS I think you'd have no problem selling your Slee amp on the secondhand market or close to list price, so you should consider that and maybe buying a DAC/AMP combo.

[trailer]

BigTone,


I've got the Beresford Mk6/3 but haven't tried the headphone out. Have you?

[Arcam_boy]

Thanks for the replies.

Would something like this work?

Fubar II USB DAC : Bypass your computer's soundcard The Fu...

If I connected it to a USB port on my mac and then connected the dac back in to the graham slee?

If theres anything else worth considering for around the same price I'd be interested.

Thanks

[Steven]

Originally Posted by BigTone

From experience, even the best PC soundcard, running in analogue mode, isn't up to much. There are simply far to many compromises inside of the PC box. I think you'd have a new world of sound with either a USB DAC or a different source.

A sound card has a dac inside...

If you are thinking about the chain, whilst you can of course do
PC > sound card > dac > amp > headphone,
there is an uncessary addition there and you could just as easily go
PC > dac > amp > headphones

On the virtues of ampage, I am firmly in worry about source, headphone and quality of recording before an amp

Which mac do you use? If you have a macbook you could try straight optical out and not bother with usb. Not sure if other macs also have line-out?

I have a laptop and my usb Edirol UA-25 sound card is infinitely superior to the onboard sound, costing me in £130 region. I have added a portable RSA Tomahawk amp into the chain but I only have portable cans atm Can't afford a desktop amp!

[Arcam_boy]

its a power mac g4 mdd 1.25ghz dual cpu.

its an oldish machine I know but I love the look of it and its still a very powerful machine. I think it has digital audio out or something like that although I am now using the m audio sound card.

my thoughts now are to connect a fubar II to one of the USB 2.0 ports connect this via RCA's to the graham slee and from there to my cans theoretically doing as you have already said....DAC---AMP---HEADPHONES.

i've seen some mixed reviews of the fubar II as I've previously said I'm not expecting it to sound like abbey road studio's and it does sound nice as it is but the amp seems to of done very little to improve anything.

[Reano]

Originally Posted by Arcam_boy

Thanks for the replies.

Would something like this work?

Fubar II USB DAC : Bypass your computer's soundcard The Fu...

If I connected it to a USB port on my mac and then connected the dac back in to the graham slee?

If theres anything else worth considering for around the same price I'd be interested.

Thanks

Can you not feed a digital feed to your KW DAC and then from that out into the solo? That is an easy way to compare the DAC ability of the m-audio card vs the KW DAC.

[TameRacingDriver]

I know everyone and their dog still recommends the MA 24/96 soundcard, but it really is quite an old card now and its not really that good by modern standards. Even a £60 EMU 0404 sounds significantly better. I've been saying this for YEARS and nobody seems to listen

As someone else mentioned a DAC might be a good option. I personally use a Beresford and am happy with the sound. It even has a built in amp, but in my experience its not quite as good as my outboard amp, but its definitely acceptable for the cash.

[Arcam_boy]

I can use my KW dac, certainly, but I don't want to really use any part of my hi fi system within my headphone set up.

I know its got to be the sound card thats the weak link as the headphones and amp should be a match made in heaven and so it can't be either of them.

I'm just after a stand alone DAC which isn't go to cost the earth. I think the fubar is going to be my best option so will order one of them at the end of the month and get a PSU1 upgrade at the end of November.

[Arcam_boy]

just popped on to the musical fidelity website and they have a new usb based DAC coming out at the end of next month which looks pretty good depending on price

[alexs2]

FWIW,I've tried the DVD-ROM drive in my HTPC as a source,and compared to either of my CD transports,it doesnt even come close.

I would be surprised if the Slee doesn't vastly improve given a better source,and it may be worth just rigging it up for a few days to the MF KW DAC to get an idea of what it could do.

[Reano]

Originally Posted by Arcam_boy

I can use my KW dac, certainly, but I don't want to really use any part of my hi fi system within my headphone set up.

I know its got to be the sound card thats the weak link as the headphones and amp should be a match made in heaven and so it can't be either of them.

I'm just after a stand alone DAC which isn't go to cost the earth. I think the fubar is going to be my best option so will order one of them at the end of the month and get a PSU1 upgrade at the end of November.

I definately mix my hifi stuff up with my headphone setup. Might as well use the best that you got. Why pay more money when you have some good equipment there? BTW I Have your speakers in the study setup and they are ace....

[Arcam_boy]

i will have a play around tomorrow and see what I can achieve. Even if I get mind blowing results I would still like to improve the performance of my pc/headphone rig which I think can be achieved by using an external DAC.

I'm going to try and get some more info on the V Dac from Musical Fidelity and if its around £100 will probably buy one of them but if its much more will opt for the fubar II.

On another note after around 30 hours of being left on and running in I have noticed a few slight improvements in sound from the slee. The mids and heighs seem to be rather good now. The bass is nice and tight but doesn't seem to have much impact like I was expecting.

[Steven]

How abouts I buy that Senn HD600 and we do a trade one month into ownership for me?

[Arcam_boy]

Hi,

Just to update this thread slightly.

The Graham Slee has now come in to its own and sounds amazing through the Senns. I've left it switched on since adding it to my system. I've also tried running it through my KW cd player and it is honestly as good if not better than my B&W 805S's!

I think my next upgrade is going to be a Cambridge Audio DACMagic II DAC which will connect to my Mac via USB 2 and feed straight in to the Graham Slee as I'm not happy with the M Audio's performance in this set up.

[cribeiro]

Originally Posted by Arcam_boy

The Graham Slee has now come in to its own and sounds amazing through the Senns. I've left it switched on since adding it to my system. I've also tried running it through my KW cd player and it is honestly as good if not better than my B&W 805S's!

eeeh.... "Told ya" I was also blown away when I listened to my Sennheiser HD650 through a Woo Audio WA2, it was sooo much better than my stereo setup It is indeed true that the same performance of a >>10kEUR stereo setup can be achieved by a 1000 EUR headphone setup... Pity that the soundstage and realism can't be fully achieved!

I am glad for you! BTW, I always preferred my 650's with valve amps, in case you are interested The Woo Audio 6, comparable to the 2 (no need of pre-outs now), is my goal

[alexs2]

Originally Posted by cribeiro

eeeh.... "Told ya" I was also blown away when I listened to my Sennheiser HD650 through a Woo Audio WA2, it was sooo much better than my stereo setup It is indeed true that the same performance of a >>10kEUR stereo setup can be achieved by a 1000 EUR headphone setup... Pity that the soundstage and realism can't be fully achieved!

I am glad for you! BTW, I always preferred my 650's with valve amps, in case you are interested The Woo Audio 6, comparable to the 2 (no need of pre-outs now), is my goal

There you go....time to sit down and enjoy it now.

As with cribeiro,I also prefer mine with valves...I tried to interest Arcam_Boy in a good big valve amp but he made a sensible choice!