Need Headphones that dont mute speakers...

neilrlsmith · 04-10-2008, 7:05 PM

This is an odd one as I dont know where to post this...I don't even know if there is a solution but I heard from my mums nans brothers auntie that it was possible.

I am very partially deaf. My wife is not. Therefore the TV is up to loud all the time (for her).

I want to be able to buy headphones that dont mute the speakers for her. The added complication is that we dont use the TVs speakers. I have an Onkyo 605 surround sound amp. Obviously if I plug headphones in, the speakers mute. Also the amp is about 8 meters away so the solution also has to be wireless.

Is this possible please???

pixelpidgeon · 04-10-2008, 7:28 PM

Hi. If the onkyo amp has optical out, you could always invest in a 'beresford tc-7510 dac' and a 10m optical cable off ebay. Then plug a decent set of headphones into the dac.
There may also be a setting in the onkyo amp to allow sound through speakers with headphones connected. cheers pixel

TameRacingDriver · 04-10-2008, 11:08 PM

You will have to go for an external amp. Its not the headphones themselves that mute the speakers, its the electronics in the TV that detect when the headphones are plugged in which automatically mutes the speakers.

Try visiting www.headphone.com if you look in the product page, it will show you a list of wireless models, but ultimately, you are going to need some kind of amp.

One thought that comes to mind is a set of Pioneer wireless headphones I used to own, I think they were called DIR-800C or something like that. They came with a wireless base unit which was fed by a digital output. Was under £200. Sounds expensive, but something like that would, perhaps, be the optimal solution. That said, I'm sure Philips had a rival set not long after which was cheaper and better. In the end I reverted back to wired ones, but that might not be an option for you (not without a long cable, anyway).

pixelpidgeon · 05-10-2008, 9:47 AM

Hi again. Heres a link to the Beresford amp. http://www.homehifi.co.uk/TC-7510/orderuk.html

For ease you can also choose to purchase with coaxial or optical cable if you like. Thats if you were to position the amp close to your onkyo. This would mean that you would either have to go the wireless headphone route, or accept a longer headphone cable from your sitting position to the amp.

The other option is to hide a long (10m+) optical cable under the carpet from the onkyo amp to the beresford (your sitting position) and the just plug in sitable headphones.

Regarding wireless headphones here are a few options http://www.audiocubes.com/category/H...cy=GBP&sort=5a

or sennheiser SR 130' http://www.play.com/Electronics/Elec...s/Product.html

sr 140's http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sennheiser-1.../dp/B0007WGSMU

bear in mind that the sound quality will be better from a similarly priced quality wired headphone.
fyi i have the beresford and am very please with the sound quality both from the headphone out to external amp and speakers.

the other option is to replace your onkyo amp with an amp that doesnt shut off sound to the speakers when headphones are used. but i dont know of an amp that does this. im sure someone else on these forums might though. cheers pixel

cribeiro · 06-10-2008, 11:31 AM

I'd recommend the Sennheiser wireless solutions, they are cheaper and will get the job done, too (no surround sound, though).

The "mute" problem is not in the headphones, though. You will need to use a "tape out" in your receiver, or similar (instead of the digital out mentioned above) so that you can hear the same that the speakers are playing.

pixelpidgeon · 06-10-2008, 12:28 PM

why wont the digital out give the same signal as tape out. I was thinking along the lines that digital out would send whatever signal the amp was currently sending to the speakers? cheers

cribeiro · 06-10-2008, 1:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pixelpidgeon

why wont the digital out give the same signal as tape out. I was thinking along the lines that digital out would send whatever signal the amp was currently sending to the speakers? cheers

That's a good question.

I do not know if the AVR digitizes the analog signals and outputs them over the digital out.

I do not know either if the digital inputs are output over the tape out.

Thus, maybe both are needed. Check the manual.

But my suggestion was rather to introduce a cheaper solution, I have nothing against the digital out

pixelpidgeon · 07-10-2008, 4:48 PM

glad to hear it!

no seriously, i was interested, as it got me thinking about maybe only a certain digital signal was passed through and not whatever the amp is currently 'playing'. In fact, you have pointed this out. cheers

Quote:

Originally Posted by cribeiro

That's a good question.

I do not know if the AVR digitizes the analog signals and outputs them over the digital out.

I do not know either if the digital inputs are output over the tape out.

Thus, maybe both are needed. Check the manual.

But my suggestion was rather to introduce a cheaper solution, I have nothing against the digital out

eviljohn2 · 08-10-2008, 10:02 AM

I'd be wary of using the digital output - you wouldn't be wanting DD or DTS signals being sent to a DAC that won't decode them.

Coming out of the tape output and straight into a wireless headphone base station would seem like the easist option to me.

cribeiro · 08-10-2008, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eviljohn2

I'd be wary of using the digital output - you wouldn't be wanting DD or DTS signals being sent to a DAC that won't decode them.

Coming out of the tape output and straight into a wireless headphone base station would seem like the easist option to me.

But what happens if a digital signal is fed into the receiver? Do you get plain stereo out of the tape out for those too? I don't think so

And thus, it wouldn't be a complete solution.

pixelpidgeon · 08-10-2008, 11:37 AM

see what you mean. apparently there is a way to se the digital out of a sky box to stereo. But this would only affect sky viewing and not dvd player etc.... and also would reduce the when watching something that includes surround sound and listening through a surround system and amps.

i agree then that tape out to wireless headphones seems a good way to go..

Quote:

Originally Posted by eviljohn2

I'd be wary of using the digital output - you wouldn't be wanting DD or DTS signals being sent to a DAC that won't decode them.

Coming out of the tape output and straight into a wireless headphone base station would seem like the easist option to me.

pixelpidgeon · 08-10-2008, 11:41 AM

the more we delve the bigger the can of worms hehe

wheres the op gone... on holiday

Quote:

Originally Posted by cribeiro

But what happens if a digital signal is fed into the receiver? Do you get plain stereo out of the tape out for those too? I don't think so

And thus, it wouldn't be a complete solution.

pablo99 · 11-10-2008, 3:38 PM

Maybe I'm reading the OP wrong but.....the answer here is simple with no need for optical, DACs, line level, etc.

Wife listens through Onkyo amp and speakers at a volume comfortable for her.

Hubby listens through headphones connected to TV, headphones mute the telly speakers and voila!

Headphones connected to the telly can be wired or wireless if preferred.

This assumes the telly has a headphone socket. I'm guessing it has if it has a line level out to the Onkyo amp.

Hope this helps

Pablo

neilrlsmith · 14-10-2008, 12:30 PM

Hi!

For some reason AV Forums didnt notify me of the responses so I assumed no-one cared

I want a simple no frills solution is possible, I just dont want to alter the sound config of the external speaker. Perhaps a little connection info will help.

Firstly, TV has NO speakers but does have a headphone socket.

TV is connected to Onkyo Amp via HDMI. The HDMi is obviously carrying picture only to the amp as the TV has no speakers.

Can I just plug headphones in to the TV then as Pablo suggested!!!?

Why do I think it wont be that simple

mossym · 15-10-2008, 7:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilrlsmith

Can I just plug headphones in to the TV then as Pablo suggested!!!?

Why do I think it wont be that simple

why don't you try it and see? surely you have a pair of headphones lying around, it won't do any damage.

neilrlsmith · 15-10-2008, 7:47 AM

Thats true - i'll do it now

neilrlsmith · 15-10-2008, 8:00 AM

No - that doesnt work. I'm not technical but I cant see how it could of seeing as its the Amp that has the speaker not the TV.

But I think I get it now. If the TV DID have speakers, we would have been in business. Alas, they do not so the problem is more problematic so to speak.

The resoultion has to be around the amp.

mossym · 15-10-2008, 8:04 AM

well if the tv has a headphone out it must have sound capability somewhere. Is your onkyo amp set up to pass audio to the tv?(don't ask me how to set that, i'm a denon owner,not a big fan of onkyo, but that's pretty irrelevant..

)

neilrlsmith · 15-10-2008, 8:59 AM

no idea. Can you be clear what you think I need the amp to do and then I can ask on an Onkyo forum. Thanks for your help.

cribeiro · 15-10-2008, 9:25 AM

I suggest that you test the tape out with some device (any device with line-in will do). You must check if the sound is output there for every source input in your amp. If it does, then you will be fine with some Sennheiser RS130 (open, leak sound) or 140 (closed, no sound leaking).

pablo99 · 16-10-2008, 3:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilrlsmith

Firstly, TV has NO speakers but does have a headphone socket.

Keen to know the make and model of telly. Is it a monitor panel with no audio involved at all??

Pablo

neilrlsmith · 16-10-2008, 3:18 PM

Pioneer PDP 508XD.

Speakers were optional.

neilrlsmith · 16-10-2008, 3:21 PM

It would appear that I need a Headphone amp. The headphone amp then plugs in to the Zone 2 Speaker line out. I can then control zone 2 independant of zone 1 (the external speakers).

Bit of a hassle and expenditure but there seems no other way.

cribeiro · 16-10-2008, 5:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilrlsmith

It would appear that I need a Headphone amp. The headphone amp then plugs in to the Zone 2 Speaker line out. I can then control zone 2 independant of zone 1 (the external speakers).

Bit of a hassle and expenditure but there seems no other way.

I have just taken a look at the back panel of your amp, and it has indeed zone 2 line-out (not speaker out!). I wonder if the tape out has exactly the same signal, but anyway the zone 2 line-out should output all input signals, regardless if digital or analog.

You have now two options:

1. Buy wired headphones.
2. Buy wireless headphones.

Option 1 will deliver better quality for the same money, but has the disadvantage that you'll need some headphone amp to control the sound (which is again more money).

Option2 may not sound as good, but it has the advantage that you don't need a headphone amp, you can move freely even in a different room and you can adjust the sound level on the headphone itself.

Now it is your choice: comfort or sound quality?

EDIT: I read again your original post, and actually you wanted them wireless, so I think you're done

I recommend the Sennheiser RS130, unless you don't want to leak sound, in which case I'd suggest the Sennheiser RS140. Other brands have also this type of headphone, like Philips, Sony, AKG... Just go into a store and check which sound you prefer. I did it, and I found the Sennheisers were the best for the money.

neilrlsmith · 16-10-2008, 5:58 PM

Not sure I understand - sorry.

I understand option one but option 2 can only be done in conjunction with option 1 right?

The wireless headphones connects (wirelessly) to the headphone amp.

But yes, comfort beats quality.

cribeiro · 16-10-2008, 6:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilrlsmith

Not sure I understand - sorry.

I understand option one but option 2 can only be done in conjunction with option 1 right?

The wireless headphones connects (wirelessly) to the headphone amp.

But yes, comfort beats quality.

No problem

If you buy a wireless headphone, this will include a sender station, which goes wired to your amp (zone 2 line out RCA connectors), and a wireless headphone with a built-in RF receiver and amplifier (it runs on batteries, the RS130 and RS140 have the convenience of using AAA rechargeable batteries). Thus, you only need to buy this. For example:

Sennheiser RS130 : Read reviews and compare prices at Ciao.co.uk

You'll need in addition an adapter plug RCA stereo male to 3.5mm jack female. Like this:

Audiogear.com

Have fun!

neilrlsmith · 16-10-2008, 6:56 PM

so the sender normally plugs straight in to the 3.5mm socket. But as its going in to 2xRCA line out I need the converter.

This makes sense. But why was I being told I need an amp between the sender and the Zone 2 line out? Simply quality?

cribeiro · 16-10-2008, 8:03 PM

Wireless headphones will also work if you use a headphone amp, but it will not sound better and it is not needed (they have their own amp).

Wired headphones need a headphone amp in order to use the line-out, they cannot be plugged directly to the line-out. The better the headphone amp, the better they will sound.

neilrlsmith · 27-10-2008, 8:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cribeiro

Wireless headphones will also work if you use a headphone amp, but it will not sound better and it is not needed (they have their own amp).

Wired headphones need a headphone amp in order to use the line-out, they cannot be plugged directly to the line-out. The better the headphone amp, the better they will sound.

Still on this. Am told that the sender unit will not have enough power to use without an amp...

Also, Is there a bluetooth solutuion out there. Like these Bluetooth stereo adaptors...?