[TameRacingDriver]

After selling my HD650 because I was bored with the sound, I made the switch to a pair of Ultrasone Proline 2500 headphones, but after having burned them in for hundreds of hours now, I remained somewhat unconvinced about their sound.

It was to my ears perhaps a little fake sounding, and not quite as exciting as I thought they would be.

Today in a moment of madness I found some Sennheiser HD600 being sold locally for a fairly reasonable(ish) price, so i decided to go for them, as I know that they are reported to sound a little different to the HD650 (brighter, snappier).

I've just plugged them in, and OMG, was I not expecting what I now seem to have. You know when you just get it right with a hifi system and everything all of a sudden seems to gel? Well thats whats happened here. The HD650 NEVER, EVER sounded like this

Whats the difference then? Well, they certainly arent sounding laid back here. The bass is absolutely pounding, the detail levels are through the roof, and its sounding unbelievable dynamic and exciting. I just cant believe it. Maybe its new toy syndrome, but honestly I wasnt expecting this.

They absolutely destroy the ultrasones. LOVING IT!

[coliam]

Hi,

I have a pair of HD580's and keep wondering whether to splash out on something else.
Seeing what people keep saying about the 650's, maybe I should stick with these, or, perhaps try Beyers or AKGs.
I don't think I could live with Grados, on comfort grounds.

It is surprising, though how many people prefer the older 600's and 580's to the 650's.

[TameRacingDriver]

Personally, I'd say unless you are willing to spend a lot of £££ on the rest of your system, to make it run balanced and/or generally find some equipment that will suit the sound of the 650, I'd say keep your 580s. They are easier to drive and sound IMO better than the 650 on less "high-end" systems.

I've heard a lot of people on headfi say that they actually always prefer the 600 and 580 out of single ended systems, and the 650 only truly comes alive when run in a push/pull or balanced setup.

[coliam]

Originally Posted by pbirkett

Personally, I'd say unless you are willing to spend a lot of £££ on the rest of your system, to make it run balanced and/or
generally find some equipment that will suit the sound of the 650, I'd say keep your 580s.
They are easier to drive and sound IMO better than the 650 on less "high-end" systems.

I've heard a lot of people on headfi say that they actually always prefer the 600 and 580 out of single ended systems,
and the 650 only truly comes alive when run in a push/pull or balanced setup.

Hmmm .... I am running a fully balanced system, now, so ........

(maybe later )

Ayup Paul. I was going to reply to your other post earlier - which i'd first read on head-fi - but got sidetracked. Anyway, I was only going to make a couple of points along the lines of (a) given your wealth of headphone experience, why stick to one rig? - the main thing i've learnt in my short headphone journey is that there is no one solution. And (b) why the 2500's over the 750's - with your musical tastes i'd have said 750's all the way.

Anyway, and in general response to headphones being too revealing: What struck me was not the question, but the terminology: revealing. Revealing comes from analysis, and analysis is hifi, not music. Maybe that's the problem? From reading many of your posts, on many forums, over the years, I know that you prefer to plough a no nonsense furrow with regard to hifi/music, but perhaps these frequent kit changes smack of the battle you go through with your inner audiophile

For what it's worth I really didn't start listening to music, and more, appreciating music, until I dismantled my hifi system.

[TameRacingDriver]

Hi Killahertz, long time no speak

Originally Posted by Killahertz

Ayup Paul. I was going to reply to your other post earlier - which i'd first read on head-fi - but got sidetracked. Anyway, I was only going to make a couple of points along the lines of (a) given your wealth of headphone experience, why stick to one rig? - the main thing i've learnt in my short headphone journey is that there is no one solution. And (b) why the 2500's over the 750's - with your musical tastes i'd have said 750's all the way.

The question about why one rig is an interesting one actually, but one I feel I can answer, and it is perhaps what you said in the following paragraph, so I'll come back to that one

As for the 2500s over the 750s, there was no particular reason for this other than my opinion that open headphones are usually better than their closed alternatives....

Anyway, and in general response to headphones being too revealing: What struck me was not the question, but the terminology: revealing. Revealing comes from analysis, and analysis is hifi, not music. Maybe that's the problem? From reading many of your posts, on many forums, over the years, I know that you prefer to plough a no nonsense furrow with regard to hifi/music, but perhaps these frequent kit changes smack of the battle you go through with your inner audiophile

For what it's worth I really didn't start listening to music, and more, appreciating music, until I dismantled my hifi system.

That is a very interesting comment indeed, particularly the last one. You are not the first one I've heard who has said that. For some, the actual obsession with the kit overtakes their love of the music.

I would be a complete liar if I said that music was the only reason I was into hifi, because I just love toys, and thats definitely part of it as well. However, its definitely the case that I have always had a goal in mind too, and that is to get a system I like to settle down with. Its taken a long time to discover what I like, and how to achieve it. I've felt happy with my speaker system for quite some time now, and now I feel like I've finally hit the spot with the headphone rig - due to not being able to audition that was MUCH harder to achieve.

Going back to your question about the "why one rig", because ultimately, its one more thing that gets in the way of the music, the whole decision about which to use and why. I feel a good system should largely just get the hell out of the way and let you enjoy the music without you thinking much about the equipment its being played on. With more sets of headphones, it would bring the equipment to the forefront rather than the music, I am sure you can understand that?

Besides, I have my speakers and my headphones, so in a respect, I am not just restricting myself to one system!

I always enjoy reading your posts though, you have a pretty unique way of thinking, quite objective really.

Do tell though, what did you do with your hifi? Did you get rid, and if so why?

Originally Posted by pbirkett

Hi Killahertz, long time no speak

It is indeed - I haven't seen you round TA in a while?

Originally Posted by pbirkett

As for the 2500s over the 750s, there was no particular reason for this other than my opinion that open headphones are usually better than their closed alternatives....

Yes, that's the general perception, and generally right, I believe. I also believe, however, that the 750's bucked the trend somewhat. I use mine for electronica, rock, rap, etc and they excel on this high energy type of material (perhaps not so well with rap as the other genres).

Originally Posted by pbirkett

Going back to your question about the "why one rig", because ultimately, its one more thing that gets in the way of the music, the whole decision about which to use and why. I feel a good system should largely just get the hell out of the way and let you enjoy the music without you thinking much about the equipment its being played on. With more sets of headphones, it would bring the equipment to the forefront rather than the music, I am sure you can understand that?

Absolutely I can, yes. On the flip side, and whilst I now shun the analytical nature of hifi, there is still a qualitive aspect to music. To this end, then, I beileve it important to maximise that quality by exploiting the synergy of a good hardware combination to different genres of music. To me this doesn't confuse, or get in the way of music, quite the opposite - it removes the hardware from the equation. There are two provisos: first, it shouldn't deter experimentation, it's how we learn, and there's also the 'toys' aspect too, which is no bad thing And, secondly, if I find a single system that is equally good with all of the genres I listen, then that's where i'd go.

Originally Posted by pbirkett

Do tell though, what did you do with your hifi? Did you get rid, and if so why?

I got rid of some of it, but kept the main electronic parts (a Black Box 500 is an esoteric DAC for a headphone rig, but by god it's good!). Oh, and I kept my Stereovox cables too - I wouldn't feel right posting on hifi forums without them As for why, well to be absolutely honest: money. I cashed in the huge rise that my house had accrued (nb: this was about 18 monthes ago), invested the result and moved into an appartment (hence the wholly more socially-aceptable headphone rigs).

[TameRacingDriver]

Originally Posted by Killahertz

It is indeed - I haven't seen you round TA in a while?

I know... I think there was an element of not enough hours in the day really. I am a regular here (kind of), hifiwigwam, headfi, pistonheads, itr-dc2, and nufc-forum, and a few others, and it was just too much. I was never having a break at all. Most of the forums I've just mention are still capable of consuming a lot of my time! TA was a fairly major distraction in that.

I dont know why, it may have just been my perception, but I always felt something of an outsider on there too, like maybe i didnt belong. I got the impression a lot of those guys knew each other outside as well, and me being hundreds of miles away from everyone, well it just added to it. In the end I just decided to quietly slip away.

Originally Posted by Killahertz

Yes, that's the general perception, and generally right, I believe. I also believe, however, that the 750's bucked the trend somewhat. I use mine for electronica, rock, rap, etc and they excel on this high energy type of material (perhaps not so well with rap as the other genres).

Well there are a couple of sole voices on headfi that say they prefer the 750... thats fair enough. It was actually a bit of a conundrum at the time as to which to go for, but logic dictated the open phone being the better, plus at the time, a *slight* slant in the favour of the 2500 on headfi at the time means that was the one I went for.

Funnily enough, although livelier than the 650, I never felt they were all that lively, nowhere near as much as I was expecting. They did improve with burn in, but they never seemed to truly let go. Not only that, but I did start noticing a kind of artificial edge to the sound after a while, not so much with a lot of music, but say on TV programmes on voices. It drove me to distraction, however, I am sure it was probably just a synergy thing and not the headphones.

Strangely enough the HD600s are proving to be the lively headphone I actually thought the PL2500 would be, and on top of that I've not yet noticed any other flaws like I did with the 2500.

To be fair I am starting to think the 2500 had the 600s trumped for "soundstage" though, but even they werent really like speakers.

Originally Posted by Killahertz

Absolutely I can, yes. On the flip side, and whilst I now shun the analytical nature of hifi, there is still a qualitive aspect to music. To this end, then, I beileve it important to maximise that quality by exploiting the synergy of a good hardware combination to different genres of music. To me this doesn't confuse, or get in the way of music, quite the opposite - it removes the hardware from the equation. There are two provisos: first, it shouldn't deter experimentation, it's how we learn, and there's also the 'toys' aspect too, which is no bad thing And, secondly, if I find a single system that is equally good with all of the genres I listen, then that's where i'd go.

Fair enough, I can see where you are coming from there. My thoughts were though that I dont have several pairs of speakers and amps so why do I need several pairs of headphones. There should be one that caters for all my needs. As it turns out I think I've found it. That said, headphones dont take up loads of room like speakers so I can see the justification for it.

Part of it for me though was the sale of "out of favour" headphones used to help fund the new ones. When I got the 600s I actually bought them intending for them to be companions to the 2500s but after listening to these all weekend, the 600s sound so much better on my setup i cant ever see the 2500s getting used again, so they've gone on ebay.

Originally Posted by Killahertz

I got rid of some of it, but kept the main electronic parts (a Black Box 500 is an esoteric DAC for a headphone rig, but by god it's good!). Oh, and I kept my Stereovox cables too - I wouldn't feel right posting on hifi forums without them As for why, well to be absolutely honest: money. I cashed in the huge rise that my house had accrued (nb: this was about 18 monthes ago), invested the result and moved into an appartment (hence the wholly more socially-aceptable headphone rigs).

Hey I dont blame you for taking advantage of house prices and downsizing.

Like you headphones are a must for me as I dont get to enjoy speakers too often at the volumes I would like for various reasons. This I feel is why I have been so doggedly determined to get it right.

Finally though, I think if push came to shove, I could actually live with these being my only sound system! I think though, that if I had no speakers, I may share the point of view of multiple pairs of headphones, just for the variety.

Originally Posted by pbirkett

Finally though, I think if push came to shove, I could actually live with these being my only sound system! I think though, that if I had no speakers, I may share the point of view of multiple pairs of headphones, just for the variety.

Variety is the spice of life may be a well worn cliche, but it's true enough. No harm in trying different equipment combinations, or owning two or more. Doing so doesn't differentiate between hifi and music, listening or analysis. Those things you do as personal preference, not as defined by your kit list.

Good luck with the 600's, perhaps they are the answer you've been looking for. Either way your recommendation of them is sufficient that i'm now itching to try a pair