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Old 26-04-2008, 6:05 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Ultrasone Proline 2500 - My thoughts

I've just sold my Sennheiser HD650 headphones to go for these new Ultrasone Proline 2500s. The HD650 are good headphones for sure, but in the end, just not to my tastes - I did not regard them as suitable for my preference in music or the kind of sound that I like. Even using a Sonic Exciter processor could not quite liven them up to my tastes.

Some people claim that you can make the Sennheiser sound more exciting with "better" equipment, but I am just not sure I really agree. For example, when listening to acoustic music, such as Dire Straits I found that the Sennheiser sounded really natural and smooth, and I had no complaints. However, the main staple of my listening diet is electronica, and it was then that the HD650 fell over by being too distant, dark, slow and uninvolving.

I had a hard time believing that "better equipment" would really help, I think I was expecting to be able to transform the HD650 into something its not. The equipment that I was using with the HD650 is well documented for being lively and dynamic, and even then I used an Exciter to liven it up even more and yet still, it did not quite hit the spot for me.

So, I sold them, and in their place I now use the Ultrasone Proline 2500. It has not had much attention on here, but I just thought that I would bring it to peoples attention because I think it is a worthy competitor to other "upper class" headphones such as the HD650, Beyer DT880/990 etc.

I have to admit that when they first came, I was quite dissapointed in the sound. They sounded a tad congested, and dark, quite like the HD650 in many respects!

Nevertheless, the more I use them, the more they are beginning to open up.

I use a squeezebox v3 into a modified Musical Fidelity Digilog (DAC), which is then fed to the Behringer Sonic Exciter SX3040, then into the ANT Amber headphone amp and finally the headphones themselves.

It may surprise some people to learn that I am using a Sonic Exciter with headphones, but I feel it is a great tool for enhancing the sound quality (I really do believe it improves it too and I am quite a fussy bugger when it comes to sound). Basically I have spent a long time searching for the ideal headphone for me, and none of them are perfect. This unit allows me to tweak headphones to my taste. On decent headphones, relatively small changes are all that is required. The unit helps add bass power / speed and also clarity, spaciousness and detail to the sound. Most hifi heads would probably baulk at the thought, but I have no such prejudices against anything that works. Some people cut squash balls in half and use them as legs, I use this!

To be fair, it did help quite a lot even with the Sennheiser, but it still couldnt quite help totally lifting the veil I perceived it to have - made it brighter yes, but still it was there, and although it tried to help the bass, it still wasnt as fast or snappy, or as detailed as I hoped.

Now, back onto the Proline 2500. As I said before, when I first got them I felt I made a mistake as they were rather underwhelming to say the least, but after a good use, these headphones are showing all the signs of being *extremely* promising, at least they are in the rig I'm using.

In some respects they do actually seem to sound a little like the HD650, but there are a few important differences. First off, they are not quite as smoothed off as the 650. The 650 would go to great lengths to make everything sound listenable and not harsh. I would describe it as a "safe" sound. The 2500 however, will not make any effort to smooth over a rough recording. It will give you the grit of the recording if it is present. Generally therefore, I think you could say the 2500 is the more "honest" headphone in that respect. Tonally, they 650 and 2500 are reasonably similar. The 650 midrange seems to dominate slightly more than in the 2500, but just a touch. The 2500 seems to have more extended treble and more perceived detail.

The bass in the 2500 is one thing that really seems to seperate it from the 650 though. The bass is faster, more detailed, more agile, punchier and deeper. It is better in every respect.

In actual fact in my rig, the Proline 2500 has quite incredible bass. Very visceral, there are times when it seems like there is a subwoofer in my room, it is that convincing. The sheer punch that these things have is deeply impressive. These also have very, very good pace, rythym and timing.

The overall sound somehow manages to strike a balance of being really quite natural sounding in tone, but also being highly dynamic and lively at the same time when the music demands it. Give it any hard hitting music, and it will deliver a superbly addictive rendition, really very exciting. Many headphones try and give you liveliness in the form of a very bright sound, but these are not bright, but they manage to sound lively.

Not only that, but they feature a technology called S-Logic. Simply put, it is an off-set driver position that tries to mimic surround sound, and I have to say that these headphones deliver one of the best "headstages" I've ever come across in any headphones. I have not tried with movies yet, but I have no reason to doubt they wont be superb for movies. They have the sheer power in the bass and the dynamics, but also what appears to be a very natural presentation thanks to the S-Logic.

Overall, with these headphones matched up with the ANT Amber and Behringer SX3040, I have a headphone setup which is by far the best sound I have ever heard from headphones. No longer do I feel compromised when I have to use my headphones over speakers, like I always did in the past.

A few other points versus the HD650, first off, they are cheaper. Brand new, the Proline 2500 can be found for £50 less than the HD650. Comfort wise, I personally think the Proline are actually slightly better than the HD650, the velour pads feel nicer to the touch (very like Beyer pads, actually), and it has a one sided cable which I prefer. Finally, one thing that Sennheiser fans will tell you is that the HD650 really wants the best amp you can afford. Not everyone can afford the best (usually because it costs several thousand pounds). Personally, I am not sure about this because with the right music, my HD650 sounded very good, it was just it didnt hit the spot for most music I tend to listen to. However, the Proline represents what appears to be a fairly easy load. I generally have my headphone amp on half as loud for the same perceived volume as the HD650.

Overall, the Proline 2500 is an outstanding headphone which is really worthy of consideration. Given some decent quality components, the 2500 manage to sound natural and supremely realistic for gentler genres, yet at the same time, for hard hitting stuff, they really go for the jugular and serve up some real excitement.

Thoroughly recommended.

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Old 26-04-2008, 6:55 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Ultrasone Proline 2500 - My thoughts

Very interesting and a very good comparative review.

Thanks!

I agree with your comments about the Sennheisers sounding dark and perhaps a bit distant,and I think the same can be applied to the HD600(perhaps not surprising given the lineage).

My own system has a set of HD600s which I'm very happy with,and the rest of the system you probably know from other posts I've made...a Teac T1 transport,Perpetual Technologies upsampler(to 24bit/96kHz),MF X-DAC3 and a Cary 300BSEi amplifier.

It's a very different system from yours,and obviously the sound I would expect to be very different as well,although it does exactly what I wanted from it.

I expect from reading your review and some previous threads that you prefer a more incisive sound to the system I have,although the balance of my valve amp has been changed a lot from when I originally bought it,by changing both the output tubes(for a good set of 300Bs as opposed to the cheaper Golden Dragon tubes it came with)and a set of truly ancient CV1988 drivers.....much cleaner and with far better dynamics and bass control.

It may well be that having the headphones connected directly to the output transformers of the Cary is responsible for a lot of the drive and dynamics,but it would never sound like a S/s amp!

I'd love to have been able to try a set of the AKG K1000s.....still...very happy with what I have currently.

I'm glad that you've found something that works for you,as I know you'd been disappointed with the Sennheisers and had tried a lot of ways to get the sound you wanted.
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Old 26-04-2008, 7:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Ultrasone Proline 2500 - My thoughts

Thanks for the comment alexs2.

Funnily enough it had crossed my mind briefly to try the HD600 instead because for a brief time I did have a loan of some HD580 and I must admit I dont remember them sounding quite as dark / dull / slow as the HD650, they seemed a little airier and a little faster, but perhaps not quite as smooth.

In the end though, I didnt think even the HD600 would really be far enough in the right direction for me.

I wont slag off the HD650, because they ARE excellent headphones, but they have to be used in the right system, for the right music IMO. I know there is a lot of scope for improving the HD650, and I dont doubt that they can sound truly excellent with enough money thrown their way, but whether they can ever be truly "rocking" cans is open to debate I think.

The Proline 2500 have caught me by surprise in a way because although I did think that their sound would be more to my taste, when I first tried them they didnt quite sound like I hoped and I did feel some disappointment with them. In the end though, I decided that they are brand new and probably need a good few hours of use under their belt. Now that they are starting to loosen up, I am VERY surprised by how good they are starting to sound.
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Old 26-04-2008, 8:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Ultrasone Proline 2500 - My thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbirkett View Post
Thanks for the comment alexs2.

Funnily enough it had crossed my mind briefly to try the HD600 instead because for a brief time I did have a loan of some HD580 and I must admit I dont remember them sounding quite as dark / dull / slow as the HD650, they seemed a little airier and a little faster, but perhaps not quite as smooth.

In the end though, I didnt think even the HD600 would really be far enough in the right direction for me.

I wont slag off the HD650, because they ARE excellent headphones, but they have to be used in the right system, for the right music IMO. I know there is a lot of scope for improving the HD650, and I dont doubt that they can sound truly excellent with enough money thrown their way, but whether they can ever be truly "rocking" cans is open to debate I think.

The Proline 2500 have caught me by surprise in a way because although I did think that their sound would be more to my taste, when I first tried them they didnt quite sound like I hoped and I did feel some disappointment with them. In the end though, I decided that they are brand new and probably need a good few hours of use under their belt. Now that they are starting to loosen up, I am VERY surprised by how good they are starting to sound.
I think you're quite right to say that the Sennheiser's arent truly "rocking"...I dont think that's really in the nature of the sound they produce,although it does sound very smooth and rythmic when partnered with the right amp.

There certainly is scope to improve the sound but as you've rightly said,I don't think it comes cheaply,if you want the best out of them.

I've only ever seen good comments about the Ultrasone range,and it's good to see something objective from someone who really has tried a good variety of amps and headphones.

Thanks again.
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Old 27-04-2008, 11:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Ultrasone Proline 2500 - My thoughts

Glad you like your new cans Paul. I'm enojying your old ones

Did you try the AKG K 701? I find them to smooth a lot less than the Senns, which is great for many of music types.

I use a far simplier system for most of my headphone listening. My PC is usually the souce via USB into a Meier Audio Corda Aria.
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Old 28-04-2008, 4:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Ultrasone Proline 2500 - My thoughts

Hi Paul,long time since i bumped into you m8
Pleased you like the prolines,i've been an avid fan of the 2500's for about a year now and have not even considered buying anything else during that time,the prolines just seem to sound better the more hours are pumped through them,they can do gentle melodic but rock very well.
As you may remember i've owned a few pairs of hd600-650's[i preffer the 600 as perhaps slightly better balanced] and would not knock the senn's as they offer good quality at a sensible price BUT i still think their more suited to people who like to listen from the perspective of being part of the audience as opposed to being on or at least near the stage.The prolines are a good honest quality pair of headphones that tick the right boxes for me with a presentation that suits my musichope you continue to feel happy with them Paul
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Old 29-04-2008, 7:31 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Ultrasone Proline 2500 - My thoughts

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Originally Posted by Daneel View Post
Glad you like your new cans Paul. I'm enojying your old ones

Did you try the AKG K 701? I find them to smooth a lot less than the Senns, which is great for many of music types.

I use a far simplier system for most of my headphone listening. My PC is usually the souce via USB into a Meier Audio Corda Aria.
Glad to hear you are enjoying them Have you had the HD650 before? How do they go with the Corda?

I've never tried the K701, I considered them but a lot of people said those too were not really the best for trance & techno which is mainly what I listen to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyli3 View Post
Hi Paul,long time since i bumped into you m8
Pleased you like the prolines,i've been an avid fan of the 2500's for about a year now and have not even considered buying anything else during that time,the prolines just seem to sound better the more hours are pumped through them,they can do gentle melodic but rock very well.
As you may remember i've owned a few pairs of hd600-650's[i preffer the 600 as perhaps slightly better balanced] and would not knock the senn's as they offer good quality at a sensible price BUT i still think their more suited to people who like to listen from the perspective of being part of the audience as opposed to being on or at least near the stage.The prolines are a good honest quality pair of headphones that tick the right boxes for me with a presentation that suits my musichope you continue to feel happy with them Paul
Hi Tony,

I seem to remember you having a pair of MDR-CD3000s as well? Or maybe you bought mine? I really cant remember, but I'm sure you did!

I did notice one of your old posts on here where you said you really rated them, and I have to say I am happy with them, and I'm sure they'll just keep getting better the more hours that go on them.
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Old 01-05-2008, 12:08 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Ultrasone Proline 2500 - My thoughts

The Aria seems fine with the HD650, though it's the only dedicated headamp I've used so I only have my PC soundcard and the headphone output of my Pioneer receiver for comparison. The Aria is pretty much neutral.

If you can get hold of a pair, I'd give the 701s a go, you might be surprised. The price over here has come down, they are easy to find around the £190 mark brand new.
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Old 01-05-2008, 8:00 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Ultrasone Proline 2500 - My thoughts

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Originally Posted by Daneel View Post
If you can get hold of a pair, I'd give the 701s a go, you might be surprised. The price over here has come down, they are easy to find around the £190 mark brand new.
I will do.... if you're buying

Seriously though we'll see how I get on with the Prolines before I try anything else. So far I'm pretty happy with those
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Old 02-05-2008, 4:45 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Ultrasone Proline 2500 - My thoughts

Thanks for an excellent review Paul. We've been looking at stocking Ultrasone headphones for a while... now I'm convinced we should ASAP.

I agree with the comments about Sennheiser HD650's being a little too relaxed and distant. Your experience with the Sonic Exciter are really interesting (that's such a good idea).

At the other end of the spectrum the Grado range are so bright and forward that my ears get fatigued after extended listening.

It sounds like Ultrasone's are somewhere between the Sennheiser's and Grado's. Or maybe as you suggest they are actually able to offer the best of both worlds.

Shaun
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