Dear Friends,

My basic set up is as follows...

A reasonably powerful homebuilt PC using a Nebula DigiTV card and an Auzentech Prelude sound card. This is connected to a Denon 5.1 AV system.
The PC is used for gaming , watching TV, listening to Radio, playing DVDs, and games.

Music is quite important to us. I've just upgraded my headphones from Sennheiser HD580s to HD650s. For the HD580s I've used an A.N.T. Amber headphone amplifier but wish to upgrade this.

Bearing in mind the limitations of my basic sources, i.e., the Prelude soundcard and the modest Denon AV system I'm wondering just how much I should spending on the new headphone amp. At the moment I am considering buying a Creek OBH-21SE, on the basis that at this price point, it would represent a reasonable "bang for buck" match for my modest sources.

I would add that I am by no means an enthusiastic tinkerer with my system. I've ruled out such things as tube amps and exotic cables. However, I'm wondering whether it would be worth the extra £90.00 to get for example a Graham Slee Solo?

I'd be most grateful for any comments or advice. Thanks for your attention.

[alexs2]

If you do want the best out of the heaphones,and can afford the extra for the Slee,then I'd advise at least auditioning one if you can.

The Creek is decent value,but by all accounts,I wouldnt say it's much better than the Amber,and I think you will find users here who rate the Amber higher.

You should also look at the MF X-Cans in it's various incarnations,most of which are readily upgradeable with a little skill and a soldering iron,and also consider the Earmax Pro.
I know these ARE tube amps,but neither need any degree of fiddling with unless you wanted to,and both are superbly reliable and good sounding.

Others worth looking at include the Headroom range from the States,some of which include a USB port and Dac if that may be of use.

My own experience with phones such as yours is that they do deliver better results with better amps,and whilst I dont suggest you take the plunge I indulged in,they do work very well with some very expensive amps.

I would say that in the price range you are looking at,and if solid state is a neccessity,then the Slee takes some beating,and one of its best competitors,White Noise Audio no longer appears to be taking orders.

[cribeiro]

After listening to it with my own ears, I can tell you that the HD650 really do scale with your gear. Use them with 100 euro cd player and amp, and they will sound great. Go to 500 euro cd player and amp, and they will sound awesome. Go beyond 1000 cdp and 1000 amp, and your jaw will drop down to the floor.

Forget about veil, bloated bass, etc. They do the job, if anything is wrong, it is not the headphones.

If you can afford the Graham, it will excel (according to some reviews I have read, I have not listened to the graham myself) with the HD650. I don't know how good is your source, but if you believe it is not up to the task, the next step would be upgrading it. Or you can just go all the way up. I tested several solid state and a couple of tube amps in various price ranges, and the tubes always sounded better to my ears. Specially combined with my cdp.

I hope this does not confuse you more...

Regards,

Alberto

[alexs2]

Originally Posted by cribeiro

After listening to it with my own ears, I can tell you that the HD650 really do scale with your gear. Use them with 100 euro cd player and amp, and they will sound great. Go to 500 euro cd player and amp, and they will sound awesome. Go beyond 1000 cdp and 1000 amp, and your jaw will drop down to the floor.

Forget about veil, bloated bass, etc. They do the job, if anything is wrong, it is not the headphones.

If you can afford the Graham, it will excel (according to some reviews I have read, I have not listened to the graham myself) with the HD650. I don't know how good is your source, but if you believe it is not up to the task, the next step would be upgrading it. Or you can just go all the way up. I tested several solid state and a couple of tube amps in various price ranges, and the tubes always sounded better to my ears. Specially combined with my cdp.

I hope this does not confuse you more...

Regards,

Alberto

Nicely put...
I've used a mixture of tubed and S/s amps over the years,and whilst I'm not convinced by some of the crop of cheaper imports recently,there are a number of very good tubed headphone amps,and my current one whilst the most expensive and impractical by far that I've ever had,is lovely to listen to.

The Slee I think is amongst the best of the current affordable S/s amps,although the Headroom amps from the USA do offer another level again for those with deep wallets.

The biggest problem is finding either dealers to get a trial from,or other ways of auditioning one before buying.

[StevieDvd]

You could also look at Meier audio products as they are in Germany there is no worries about custom duties and the delivery is fast. The latest trend of amps with built in usb is also something you may wish to think about, makes using the PC as a source a doodle.

I've also got a Rudistor amp but they can be a little more expensive but being based in Italy again reduces worries about customs costs.

We need to take back ownership of the USA just to get access to vat & customs free audio gear - which they have a multitude of choice at great prices. Though the US do buy the Graham Slee, Meier and Rudistor products too which to me speaks volumes.

Steve

Thank you all for your helpful replies. Based on many enthusiastic reviews and your comments, I've decided to buy the Graham Slee Solo. The 650s do sound very good on the A.N.T. Amber but I'm hoping that they will be even better with the Solo. I'll probably put the Amber up for sale on the members' market thread.

My basic source is a Denon 500SD which got great reviews when I bought it a couple of years ago for £500. I also listen to lots of stuff through my PC TV card and play a few games, until now I've sourced all my sounds, with the exception of the DVD player through the Denon. I've been wondering whether there's any point in connecting the Solo directly to my Auzentech soundcard. This would allow me to select either the Denon or the soundcard as the source for my headphones. The only gain I can see here is that I wouldn't have to turn my AV system on to get sound from the PC, but on headphones only. I'd welcome informed comments on this conundrum (well it's a conundrum for me)!

Sometimes, I feel a little guilty about using these threads as I have very little to offer in return for the informed advice and experience that is generously shared here. I fear that I will always take much more from these discussions than I'm able to give. I have some sort of neurotic block to learning about the mysteries of electronics. Fate has determined that I shall remain a Noob until my dying day.

Thanks again everyone.

[alexs2]

Originally Posted by Leporello

Thank you all for your helpful replies. Based on many enthusiastic reviews and your comments, I've decided to buy the Graham Slee Solo. The 650s do sound very good on the A.N.T. Amber but I'm hoping that they will be even better with the Solo. I'll probably put the Amber up for sale on the members' market thread.
.......

Sometimes, I feel a little guilty about using these threads as I have very little to offer in return for the informed advice and experience that is generously shared here. I fear that I will always take much more from these discussions than I'm able to give. I have some sort of neurotic block to learning about the mysteries of electronics. Fate has determined that I shall remain a Noob until my dying day.

Thanks again everyone.

Don't feel guilty...the forums are here for advice and help as well as feedback.

I think you'll be very happy with the Slee,and all I'd ask is for your opinions when you've got it,so that others can benefit later maybe.

Enjoy it!

[NicolasB]

Looks like I'm too late to influence the purchase, but another vote for the Graham Slee "Solo" here; I use one with HD650 'phones myself and it sounds damn good.

Sennheiser used to use a Solo amp when demonstating their new 'phones at audio exhibitions, so they obviously agree.

[Jaunty]

Hi Leporello

Did you get the amp yet, what do you think?

I am new to headphone amps as well and should have a 2nd hand Little Dot Micro MkIII arriving this week (this after buying some Sennheiser HD650s in a weak moment).

I will try and post some first impressions in due course

Cheers

Jaunty

[DennyL]

Originally Posted by StevieDvd

We need to take back ownership of the USA just to get access to vat & customs free audio gear Steve

Just pointing out that European audio gear isn't VAT-free.

[StevieDvd]

Originally Posted by DennyL

Just pointing out that European audio gear isn't VAT-free.

If we do take back ownership then we'll treat the USA as a vat free zone

Hi jaunty,

My SOLO Green has been on order for a couple of weeks but as yet, it has not been delivered. I will come back in due course to share my experience with the Solo. However, I'm told that it needs 500 hours burn in time before it begins to show to its full potential! Also the HD650s are said to need hundreds of hours burn in time. So one way or another I'm going to have to be patient before I'm able to enjoy the reported magnificence of the HD650/Solo combination.

To be honest my HD650s with 50 or so hours on them sound pretty good in combination with with my Amber ANT amplifier. They have a very pleasing soundstage but I find the bass to be less precise than I would wish, a little muddy. Perhaps, that's due to my ears.

My 650 took around 120 hours to start sounding as good as its reputation; before that it was rather harsh and forward. I don't doubt it will improve from here. What surprises me is that people rave about the 650 out of the box, which makes me wonder if they're hearing the actual sound or what they expect to hear. The 650 should not be listened to without at least 100 hours burn-in, and that means playing a loud track (preferably with lots of bass) on repeat at slightly above normal listening level.

Burn-in is an incontravertible fact. Put it on your teeshirts.

[Jaunty]

I've left my HD650s plugged in to XFM for a week wrapped in a tea towel (in a seperate room, would have driven me and the missus mad otherwise).

A 2nd hand Little Dot Micro III has just been delivered 10 minutes ago. Bought via Head-Fi but as they are down sale concluded via AVF pm's (as I saw that the seller is a member here too). Thanks AVF.

Let's see if it makes a difference. Even if it doesn't it is probably worth it as it looks so cool

[Jaunty]

Unfortunately I've now realised/remembered that my Arcam AVR250 receiver only does analague in to analogue out and digital in to digital out, not digital in to analogue out.

All my CDs are now ripped lossless & then packed away, and I play back via Airtunes and Airport Express. I thought I could use the Wolfson DACs in my Arcam but no. So I think I'll need to get something like a Beresford or Shek DAC next....

Hi Jaunty,

My SOLO green has arrived. Looks good and sounds pretty good on my newish 650s. I'm looking forward to discovering how the Solo and 650s sound when they've been burnt in. Hoping that my hearing is up to the quality of my cans and amp.

I'll share my experiences with those who may interested as time goes on.

[Jaunty]

Hi there, missed your reply. Glad it arrived, I think the price has gone up a bit now so you might have a mini bargain. Hope it is sounding good.