Ok just a quick question...

Which is better and why?

Sennheiser 201's
or Sennheiser 202's?

Or if anyone can find me a better pair avaliable in the UK for under £30!

Thanks!
Joe

[ploder]

I would like to know the answer to this question myself. I am in the same position as you and am currently considering:

Technics RPF350 http://************/y6xrf3 £29.99
Technics RPF200 http://************/ylhjug £19.99
Sony MDRXD100 HIFI http://************/tjmht £11.10
Sony MDRXD200 http://************/yllod4 £17.99

Although there are probably more..researching all this is taking a long time. I would especially like to know about the Technics RPF350. Maybe we should make a budget under £30 stickie?

Originally Posted by joe501

Ok just a quick question...

Which is better and why?



Thanks!
Joe

Have you actually demoed either or both of these? as that would be the best way to tell. I have a pair of the 202's and am still very happy with them.

I havent been able to try any out as I am going to buy on the internet and dont live near any big shops..

If someone could help me and ploder out it would be much appreciated.
Ploders headphones he has found look good too, another thing I forgot to mention is that im looking for big ones that fit right around the ear, not the smaller ones.

[ploder]

I forgot to mention is that im looking for big ones that fit right around the ear, not the smaller ones

This is what I'm looking for too. Just been researching this and apparently we want 'circum-aural' headphones as opposed to 'supra-aural' which only rest on top of the ear. Watch out for this in the technical description. This would eliminate the HD-202s and HD-212 Pro from our list.

Originally Posted by joe501

another thing I forgot to mention is that im looking for big ones that fit right around the ear, not the smaller ones.

Would that be for comfort reasons ? or an audio preference ?

[StevieDvd]

I've not tried the HD202 but did have the 201s for a while, actually used them for commuting as they are closed and quite isolating.

The 201s were quite a hit over at head-fi and still rate as good for budget headphones and they don't need an amp either.

I don't usually comment on the lower end headphones, either iem or standard as my equipment is all at the other end of the price scale!!

I recabled my 201s just for the hell of it but gave them away to someone at a head-fi meeting for their first proper headphones.


Steve

[ploder]

joe501, what worries me about the Sennheiser HD-201s is the frequency response (21-18,000Hz) I just don't see how that can deliver a half-decent sound. They may be good for the price (according to the reviews online) but I'm not convinced they're the best you can get for under £30. I don't think the Technics RPF350 are that good either because Which? only gave them 41/100 and said the sound was unlcear. Don't rush into buying anything just yet as we have only just begun our journey to find the best circum-aural headphones for under £30

I'm currently looking at the Audio Technica ATH-T22 & ATH-T44 http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/re...0_t_series.pdf for £21.48 and 29.48 at iheadphones.co.uk. Unfortunately, they are out of stock and I can't find them for that low price elsewhere. There also seems to be a lack of reviews on them, but they do look impressive on paper.

Originally Posted by skinnyfat

Would that be for comfort reasons ? or an audio preference ?

Well I suppose mainly for comfort, but I also like the idea of a mini coccoon around my ear that the sound is trapped in, I think it makes the music more immersive

Originally Posted by ploder

joe501, what worries me about the Sennheiser HD-201s is the frequency response (21-18,000Hz) I just don't see how that can deliver a half-decent sound. They may be good for the price (according to the reviews online) but I'm not convinced they're the best you can get for under £30. I don't think the Technics RPF350 are that good either because Which? only gave them 41/100 and said the sound was unlcear. Don't rush into buying anything just yet as we have only just begun our journey to find the best circum-aural headphones for under £30

I'm currently looking at the Audio Technica ATH-T22 & ATH-T44 http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/re...0_t_series.pdf for £21.48 and 29.48 at iheadphones.co.uk. Unfortunately, they are out of stock and I can't find them for that low price elsewhere. There also seems to be a lack of reviews on them, but they do look impressive on paper.

Ploder, I know nothing about sound apart from that the human ear can hear from 20-20,000 Htz on a good day! But I dont know how critical the htz difference is regarding sound qulaity! Do you or anyone else know?

Also apart from people on here and technichal specifications we have no idea what is the best... either those Technicas are so good that they are alwyas out of stock or not in enough demand...

I will try looking for other forums as well for people to help us out, but please everyone keep posting on here if you can help in any way!

[ploder]

But I dont know how critical the htz difference is regarding sound qulaity! Do you or anyone else know?

According to this article a wider frequency response is no guarantee of quality: http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-7612_7-6322607-4.html And there was I beginning to think that I could tell a good pair of cans by their specs on paper lol. The problem is we may probably never know unless we physically try them on. This would be difficult as I more or less live in a slum area with no decent av shops. I am thus relying on peoples opinions and reviews. There seems to be a shocking lack of first hand opinion on the headphones in our price bracket. Anyway, at the moment I am going through as many manufacturers webpages as possible and trying to find headphones forums e.g

www.head-fi.org/forums/
http://headwize.com/ubb/forums.php

As a starter pair of cans you can't really fault the 202's and they are easy to drive as well so you can get away without using a headphone amp

[ploder]

As a starter pair of cans you can't really fault the 202's and they are easy to drive as well so you can get away without using a headphone amp

But the 202's don't fit around the ear, which is what I and joe501 wanted. I've made a new thread on Head-fi about which full-sized, closed back circum-aural headphones are best for under £30:http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...=1#post2640695
Unfortunately I haven't got much of a response yet. There are plenty of headphones which look far superior on paper than the HD-201, but after spending countless hours searching google I can't find many reviews on them. The reviews tend to be focused on the high priced headphones.

Originally Posted by ploder

But the 202's don't fit around the ear, which is what I and joe501 wanted.

Well at the risk of sounding blunt, why did you then bother asking about them in the first place in your OP ??

[StevieDvd]

The HD201 are very light and isolating so you don't have to worry about them going around your ears (circum-aural) they fit over the ears (supra-aural).

They get my vote as a good budget headphone as I and others have used them even though we had more expensive models for other usage. I once let a forum member here try out the HD201, HD600, HD650s and some Grado's and though he did realise the 201s were a cheaper model he was suprised at exactly how cheap they were.

Remember you won't get Senn HD650 quality (build or sound) for £30!

Steve

[ploder]

Thanks for your response StevieDvd. Do you or anyone else have any experience with the following full-sized cans?

Technics RPF350 http://************/y6xrf3 £29.99
Technics RPF200 http://************/ylhjug £19.99
Audio Technica ATH-T44 http://************/yrrbrj £29.48
Audio Technica ATH-T22 http://************/2fgd4u £21.48
Pioneer SE-M380 http://************/2o72hs £21.95
Pioneer SE-M280 http://************/2kxfsf £16.33
Pioneer SE-M380DV http://************/2t9s39 £27.05
Panasonic RPHT385 http://************/2wusf5 £23.90

I have also been looking at a range of Philips headphones: http://************/25aggv When it says the accustic system is 'open' does this mean that they are not closed back?

[StevieDvd]

Sorry not those, I tend to go straight for the top end models (after doing a little reserach of course).

The Philips one you mentioned looks 'closed' as there no visible grills, how that equates to open I can't say unless it is just a very thin plastic and does not isolate well.

Steve

[ploder]

Do you know where I can get info on the above pairs StevieDvd? I've been searching Google for hours and even head-fi forums doesn't have much opinion on any of them I'm finding it diffcult to decide whether to get the sennheiser hd-201s or any of the above. I don't want to buy the hd-201s only to find I have to spend more on an amp (see the middle paragraph here: http://www.headphone.com/products/he...ser-hd-201.php)

[StevieDvd]

Hi,

I can see where the confusing threads at head-fi can be making what should be an easy decision harder than it should be.

Having just done a search I've seen a lot of good stuff said about the HD201 (nothing of note on the 202) and quite a lot of contradicting comments too.

Having been a member over there for quite a while I know which comments to trust and which to ignore. The 201s are Ok for the price, do not have to be amped, unless you have a very poor source. I gave mine to someone to use as is with his Ipod and he listens loud.

They will improve with an amp but most headphones will, though some MUST have an amp. I seem to recall headroom had the HD201 as the best budget cans around and they must have added the note about amping to cover themselves later than my last look.

At aroung £14 these are good headphones.

Thanks again Steve, looks like I will be going for the 201's!

Could you just tell me what a headphone 'amp' is?
How dramatically will it change the sound quality?
How big are they? (practical use with MP3 player?)

[ploder]

Thank you for the time and effort you have put into helping us StevieDvd. I will probably settle for the HD-201s too.

Joe51, to the best of my knowledge a headphones AMP is short for 'amplifier' and it amplifies the audio signal. headphones, I think, do have amplifiers in the earpieces but are generally of poor quality, hence people buy separate amps to amplify the audio signal further. In addition the headphones at the more expensive end of the market have higher 'impendance' values measured in Ohms. This means that they are more resistant to the electrical current being fed into them and people find that the 'source' (what ever you have them plugged into) cannot 'drive' (power) them sufficiently.

For portable devices the maximum impendance of your headphones should be around 64 Ohms. This makes sense as such a little device cannot power a top of the range pair of headphones that has 64+ ohms impendance (resistance) satisfactorily.

Headphone amps almost conclusively improve the sound qaulity. In fact with non-budget range pairs they are regarded as a necessity by most people. Without them their expensive headphones may lack clarity and the sound is reported to be 'muddy' or 'weak' (Again this goes back to the simple idea that if the headphones have a high resistance - ie 'impendance', you will need to feed more power into it)

I don't think headphone amps are normally for portable use. From looking on the net they all look bigger than pocket size.

All the above is what I've learnt about headphones in the first week of looking for a pair. I may be wrong about certain issues and I encourage ayone to correct me.

[StevieDvd]

Hi guys,

I must update the sticky thread above, especially with more info on the portable side of things.

A headphone amplifier is the circuitry that sits behind the socket on the Ipod, MP3, CD, hi-fi etc. It's job is to take the fixed line output and supply the current to drive a set of headphones.

In some equipment the parts cost a few pence, and you usually get what you pay for, as the manufacturer wants to keep costs down and on some gear like hi-fi units the headphones are seldom used.

An external amp is used to replace this circuitry with a better, cleaner and more adjustable one. Either to provide a 'colouration' sound in some cases or a more neutral 'unflavoured' sound. This is achieved by the selection of parts (opamps, tubes and the like). Headphone amps range from the diy ones made for a few quid fitted into small tins, up to the several thousand pound tube monsters.

More often used in fixed position with hi-fi units but there are an increasing number being made for portable use too. The smallest I've seen has been about the size of a usb memory pen.

For home the preference will be for a mains powered unit with full size connects for the big headphones. For portable they are battery powered and use the small 3.5mm jack plugs/sockets.

For my sins I now have quite a collection of both portable & home units (diy & commercial) which has built up during my learning curve. I must update my web page so I can show a few examples.

If there is enough interest I will probably get one of my old diy amps and send it around for people to try. It would be sent around a bit like a chain letter for people to try for a few weeks as long as they agree to pass it on to the next person (UK only to keep postage costs down). I don't make them for sale or intend to at any stage so this is not a marketing ploy - I did the same with a small dac over at head-fi before.

If you try a simple one and appreciate the benefits then I warn you that you might get tempted on the headphone path which can lead to expensive equipment. if you don't hear a difference then simply save you money and be happy with your current gear.

Steve

Wow!
They arrived today and the quality and comfort is fantastic!
Thanks everyone for helping me make the decision toi buy them!
Joe

[ploder]

Hi joe501, i'm glad you like them. Mine haven't come yet. I was wondering whether the base is weak like some people say and whether you need to trun the volume really high to get a decent level of sound from them?