[russelkhan]

I've been using a pair of Sennheiser HD600's for over 5 years now, and have always been amazed by the sound quality. In recent years I've been using them with a succession of different iPods - I know the audiophiles out there will be sniggering at my ignorance, but even wthout a headphone amp my high-bitrate AAC files sound great. I always listen in a quiet home environment so the low sensitivity of the 'phones has not been a problem. I got a pair of Grado SR125's recently because I've been craving a new sound, and also out of sheer curiosity - are they all they're cracked up to be? I have to say that without a headphone amp, they're not. With every genre of music I've tried, the Grado sounds muddy and lacking in frequency extension when compared to the Sennheiser. I realise the HD600 is from a much higher price bracket, but they are now available for around £150, bringing it very close to the UK price of the SR125. Don't get me wrong, the SR125 is very good, but the HD600 is just better.

I'll be getting a BK portable headphone amp during my next trip to the UK - I'm hoping this will make a lot of difference to the sound. In the meantime I'm left wondering why Grado gets so much good press.

[GBDG1]

What music are you listening to? Genres?

[russelkhan]

So far I've tried Dire Straits, Bruce Springsteen, Pink Floyd, New Order, Sting, Linkin Park, and Suzanne Vega. I've yet to try classical music.

I've also plugged the 'phones directly into the headphone socket on my Linn Classik, which is pretty good. The sound is a lot better than the iPod output, and closes the gap between the HD600 considerably, but not entirely. The HD600 is still audibly better.

[extremelydodgy]

Even the RS-1 falls short of the HD600 in terms of audio capability. What you get (primarily because the drivers are closer to the ear, not really through any driver magic) is increased dynamics with almost all Grados. The music feels more lively, but there's a sandpapery quality to all Grados, even the RS-1 which is arguably the smoothest of the lot (but not having heard the new top of the pile, the GS). The HD6xx are better thought out and better performing phones from a sound quality aspect. The Grados deliver a different sound and some people like that better... that's just the way it is. Fortunately all the higher end Grados I bought used from the US (or approached UK sellers with a US + a bit offer) so I didn't throw my money down the drain.

[Reano]

Originally Posted by extremelydodgy

Even the RS-1 falls short of the HD600 in terms of audio capability. What you get (primarily because the drivers are closer to the ear, not really through any driver magic) is increased dynamics with almost all Grados. The music feels more lively, but there's a sandpapery quality to all Grados, even the RS-1 which is arguably the smoothest of the lot (but not having heard the new top of the pile, the GS). The HD6xx are better thought out and better performing phones from a sound quality aspect. The Grados deliver a different sound and some people like that better... that's just the way it is. Fortunately all the higher end Grados I bought used from the US (or approached UK sellers with a US + a bit offer) so I didn't throw my money down the drain.

I definately don't agree with the better sound theory of Senn's and I have them and the Grado's and HD650. I think the AKG701 beat the HD600 or HD650 but the Grado's are just more detailed even when you balance out the sound levels e.g. turn up by 6db - 10db depending on phones, cables, etc. I have also recorded my own stuff and listened to them through each and the Grado's are more accurate (again all my opinion). The RS1 vs the Senn's is really an easy test. Give to anyone and ask them to say which is more detailed and even untrained ears say the Grado (I agree because the drivers are nearer the ears as well). Also for me the biggest test of any headphone is do I start to tap my feet, nod my head, get emotionally involved with the music and the Grado's get me there faster. I also brought secondhand and the Senn's with cable upgrade were more expensive than the Grado's!

[StevieDvd]

Grado get better press as they have a bigger US following thanks to the cheaper prices over there. They are easier to drive and don't need to much in the way of expensive headphone amps to achieve their best.

The Senns on the other hand are harder to drive and really benefit from higher end equipment - until you have heard them driven by balanced setup you won't appreciate how much they better they can actually get.

I'll hold judgement on Grado's being as good until I've tried them in balanced mode as well. Comparing my best Grados against the balanced Senns is no contest (imo).

I've pondered whether to post my balanced setup review here at avforums as well but only stopped to save you guys money.

If your'e interested google 'Rudistor NX-33' and you'll find just a few hits until the word gets around.

Steve

[TameRacingDriver]

Just because a headphone is allegedly more detailed (grado) does not neccesarily make it more pleasurable to listen to.

I like a lively sound and listen to music best served up lively, but to me the Grados seem somewhat like a ruthless assault on the eardrums, harsh sounding, and no real effort made (due to the proximity of driver to ear) at a soundstage. As a result, I find them VERY fatiguing.

The fact that they are so stupidly expensive in the UK and Grado's stance about exports from the USA, I would personally refuse even to consider them.

[dingwall]

I've never fathomed the appeal of Grado 'phones either. Thank god I'm not alone.

There are just some products that I find extremely poor at everything except their own marketing, yet get rave review and user feedback day in, day out. (M&K speakers anyone? ahem). Why this is, I'm not entirely sure.

Russelkhan - I tried three (!) pairs of Grado headphones, with and without Slee Solo headphone amp - unfortunately the amp didn't help much. I thoroughly recommend a pair of Sennheiser HD25s - they sound great at all volumes, suit rock music down to a tee, are in most studios the world over, and are driven with ease even by the ipod.

[Reano]

Originally Posted by StevieDvd

Grado get better press as they have a bigger US following thanks to the cheaper prices over there. They are easier to drive and don't need to much in the way of expensive headphone amps to achieve their best.

The Senns on the other hand are harder to drive and really benefit from higher end equipment - until you have heard them driven by balanced setup you won't appreciate how much they better they can actually get.

I'll hold judgement on Grado's being as good until I've tried them in balanced mode as well. Comparing my best Grados against the balanced Senns is no contest (imo).

I've pondered whether to post my balanced setup review here at avforums as well but only stopped to save you guys money.

If your'e interested google 'Rudistor NX-33' and you'll find just a few hits until the word gets around.

Steve

I have listened to them balanced through Naim, mackie, behringer (mixing desk), etc and Grace m902 headphone amp So I am commenting on them from that aspect. As I have mentioned before I do have pro audio equipment for recording and play back so I am taking it from that perspective and I have to record and play back music and sound as part of my living so again balanced, unbalanced, usb, opticial, digital cable, , which ever front end, etc .... Just giving my opnion as you are yours. So I have heard Senn on balanced and Grado RS1 in both modes Grado's win (but again like all here my opinion). I almost feel like saying to people lets not keep having this conversation some will like Grado's others Senn's I'm lucky to have both as well as others so makes no difference to me but to others just try and then decide for yourself (is how it always ends).

[Reano]

Originally Posted by pbirkett

Just because a headphone is allegedly more detailed (grado) does not neccesarily make it more pleasurable to listen to.

I like a lively sound and listen to music best served up lively, but to me the Grados seem somewhat like a ruthless assault on the eardrums, harsh sounding, and no real effort made (due to the proximity of driver to ear) at a soundstage. As a result, I find them VERY fatiguing.

The fact that they are so stupidly expensive in the UK and Grado's stance about exports from the USA, I would personally refuse even to consider them.

Thank goodness you can use eBay and the secondhand route as well as other methods to get things like that. I could say why buy software, food, petrol, clothes, cars, etc which are all cheaper (even when same brand) in the USA than in UK. Don't let it put you off just get around it

[Reano]

Originally Posted by dingwall

I've never fathomed the appeal of Grado 'phones either. Thank god I'm not alone.

There are just some products that I find extremely poor at everything except their own marketing, yet get rave review and user feedback day in, day out. (M&K speakers anyone? ahem). Why this is, I'm not entirely sure.

Russelkhan - I tried three (!) pairs of Grado headphones, with and without Slee Solo headphone amp - unfortunately the amp didn't help much. I thoroughly recommend a pair of Sennheiser HD25s - they sound great at all volumes, suit rock music down to a tee, are in most studios the world over, and are driven with ease even by the ipod.

I have listened to most Senn's and normally have the AKG701, HD650 and Grado RS1 on my desk and when I come to listen to music ( I reach for the Grado and if not them the AKG normally). However in mixing there are some monitors that are usually not as detailed that are used for mixing because if something can sound good on them they will sound good on most other speakers. I use The Senn's like this. The Senn' HD25 are not the usual choice for sound engineers it's phones like Beyer DT150, For on location recording some will use the Senn 280 Pro and Sony's, etc. Note sound engineers are not always that particular about the cables and headphones they use. Which studio's use the HD25 as their main headphones (because Im not saying I know even a tenth of all studio's)? When I speak about being detailed I normally mean the accuracy of the reproduction e.g. a picture being detailed compared to being blur, or High definition vs Standard definition. The Senn's tend to bloat the bass up & is not natural sounding and what I mean by this is if you play a bass instrument like a double bass or even two octives below middle C on a piano listen to it. Record it then listen to it through the headphones and see which sounds the most detailed 'accurate' this is what I mean. Don't get me wrong when I listen to R&B and some Rock the Senn's will bring out the bass more so I tend to put them on even though this may not be the sound as recorded. Some recordings are rubbish and when you listen to them with detailed accurate equipment it sounds just that, rubbish but like some vocal processors some equipment can make even bad singers sound 'in tune'.

Anyway one thing I will say is we are debating 'quality kit' It's a bit like the Subaru Impreza owners debating with the Mitsubishi Evo owners, the Porsche vs the Ferraris, Linn vs Clear Audio turntables, Etc quality vs quality. At least we have good headphones. For me the top headphones big five are usually Grado, Senn, AKG, Beyer and Stax (some may include the top end Sony's and Audio Technica).

[Drubbing]

Well, this one's been dragged from the depths...

Some people will always prefer one type of sound over another. I know people who have Grado and Senns because they are so different.

I have to laugh at the OP, who's obviously got plenty of headphone experience - running Senns previous flagship phone, off iPods. Sure it'll play, but how far away from hearing what it can do, can you possibly get?

As for Grado's 'being poor at everything, except marketing' - that's ridiculous. The only marketing plan Grado has is "sell it for more outside the US."
Grado don't market or hype their product because the hi fi publication industry, their awards, and users do it all for them. Forums like head fi are bastions of fan boy excess anyhow, and the opinions are also US-centric. If people get their audio info from there, they're going to be terminally disappointed.

What makes Grado's great VFM is their US prices. Unfortunately, in the UK, they cost more than virtually everywhere else - so it takes them out of their 'established' price bracket and sees them competing with more phones at a higher level. So it's no surprise some people aren't impressed with them.

If they were less than half the current price, it would be a different story. Luckily, here in Aus we can get 3 Grado's sold by their mates at Alessandro

MS1 (SR125 @ $150 AUS) What are these in the UK, 180 quid?!
MS2 (SR325i @ $450)
and MSPro (RS1 @ $900).

At those prices, these are all massive bargains.