I need to get a headphone amp and headphones, as I'm about to get married and need to keep the noise down! Unfortunately, I know nothing at all about headphones, other than that I apparently need a separate amp for them...

I have a Naim CD player and a Linn LP12, and want something that would suit them. [I am used to playing them through a Naim Nait and Linn Kans, and would like something that sounds along these lines, if that makes sense in terms of headphones!]

My combined budget is about £250, but I would stretch to a bit more if it made a big difference. I might have a budget later for upgrades - would this make any difference to my choice?

Would be really grateful for any advice...

[satinder]

I think you should consider getting the Naim Headline headphone amp as you already have Naim equipment. However others to consider include the Creek OBH-21SE, Graham Slee Solo and Music-Fidelity X-Can. As for headphones i think something like the Sennhaiser HD-650 might be too pricey to start with (they retail at £300). So maybe the highly rated Grado SR60?

But it all depends on what music you listen too and how much will you be listening via headphones. The amps i mentioned cost at least £250 so if you cant stretch your budget then maybe an Project Headbox mk2 (£75) with the Grados (£90) could be a starting point.

You should visit the Head-fi forums http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/index.php? which are dedicated to headphones and amps, it is an american based site though.

I have had some trouble with advice on headphones as it really is a subjective area, so you should really go to your local hifi dealer to listen to the differences between products.

Hope i helped!

Sat

[Reano]

Almost everything is subjective thats why there are forums. Rather than going to a shop that no doubt won't have all the combinations you would want to listen to, etc you go on a forum like this get a selection from reviews. Then you listen to those. You then make your choice I think you may have posted this thread twice. My answer of suggested combo's is in the other thread.

I really dont understand, surely a pari of HD650's for £200 would sound better than phones + amp for £200.

[TameRacingDriver]

Auditioning headphones and amps is almost one of the hardest tasks out there IMO... at least if you dont want to go for the most mainstream kit, and its the more rare stuff that really has the performance. Like the Headsave Classic mentioned here, these dont come up very often, but I can say as an Ex Owner of one that it beats pretty much all the commercial offerings like the Creek and MF X-Can (including v3) for a fraction of the price.

I highly recommend an ANT Amber if you come across one - I am very seriously impressed with this amp - I've been using mine for 12 months now and still find it truly excellent, and it definitely fits in with the "Naim" type sound.

[TameRacingDriver]

Originally Posted by Gullanian

I really dont understand, surely a pari of HD650's for £200 would sound better than phones + amp for £200.

No, they're right. The HD650 really needs some top class peripherals to perform well. The HD580 + Headsave will definitely sound better than a badly driven HD650 - I've owned all three, I know

[NicolasB]

Originally Posted by pbirkett

No, they're right. The HD650 really needs some top class peripherals to perform well. The HD580 + Headsave will definitely sound better than a badly driven HD650 - I've owned all three, I know

I disagree entirely, I'm afraid. Buy yourself some HD650s (they're about £180 new on eBay). Even without an amp they will sound better than an amp + 'phones that cost £200 between them.

If, farther down the line, you want to invest in a high-grade headphone amp, the "usual suspects" would be the Graham Slee "Solo" (which I own, and is superb) the Earmax, and the Sugden Headmaster (which is very pricey, but very good, and also doubles up as a fairly respectable pre-amp).

[Nic Rhodes]

I'm with NicolasB on this. I don't think the 650 (and 580, 580 J and 600) are difficult to drive at all despite what people 'report' here. They do however respond to good electronics if you want to go down that route. For me there is not a huge jump between the CM £40 anps and the MF / Creeks of this world. The jump comes when you go to the Sudgen, Slees etc at the £400 bracket. I also own all these phones. I use these models to test the easy to drive end of my headphone amps.

[StevieDvd]

The Senns are not that hard to drive to be sure but the extra you get from them amped is, imo, worth it.

It's like buying an Aston Martin with an engine speed limit set at 70mph - yes you can drive it OK and it reaches the speed limit - but think of the fun you are missing (off public roads of course!!).

I've seen a lot of people complain about the Senn HD580/600/650s as having a veil or lacking detail when they run them from a mediocre source unamped. The expectation that the price conveys makes most people think the headphones will make everything sound great, which unfortunately is not true.

On a tight budget yes get an amp+headphones for £200, on a bigger budget get the Senns first then a good amp. You can listen to the Senns without an amp and run them in, you can't listen to an amp without headphones!

Steve

[Reano]

Hey hey this thread is hotting up. Like so many here who all have the Senn's I have the HD600 and HD650, blah blah . The HD600 can be got on eBay for around c£110 or less. I got mine for £95 +PP and those amped outperform the HD650. Again I am assuming you don't have a good headphone source already.

Also the Grado 125 Amped is on a par with HD600 in my opnion and are around the same price second hand. (I'm talking sound not comfort ). But the Grado's can be made to be comfortable quite easily.

It all depends on how good your source is in the first place I have heard some very good CD Players with Headphone out and own volume control sound really, really good where you don't need to get an amp unless you are talking big bucks for small gain.

If anyone lives near Telford and wants to come listen or you Paul.

I have the following you can demo till you feel happy.

I have as headphones HD600, HD650, HD280Pro, HD201, Grado RS1, Senn mx (various), shure e5c (of course you'll have to use one of the buds that don't fit me or I haven't used) e21's sony, senn px200 and others I just can't remember
Amps, I have a very good mixing desk headphone out, Terratec sound card, EMU pro sound card and breakout box, MF v3, Project Headbox v1, Sugden Headmaster, Gracie m902, Graham Slee MkIV, Penguin CMoy amp, Minibox headphone amp, Headout on various AV and Stero amps,
Source have vinyl LP12, CD various (SACD, DVD-Audio, Marantz, even good old Ipod's).

You can compare the sound to various speakers. for small closeup comparison the B&W 805s are very good or some amped monitors.

Really if you want to listen I have no problem at all. Bring your own CD's etc and then go from there. (note some of the above used in different places of work and the rest of family).

[HighlandeR]

Hmm maybe I missed something but he did say in his post hes getting married he needs to keep the noise down?

I take it he means to not disturb or even hear the new wife ?

In that case id recommend some closed headphones that isolate the noise, the Audio Technica ATH-A900s are a popular pair of headphones and can be nicely driven straight from ipods/walkmans just fine and sound similar to Senns 580+ so I belive bluetin have a few pair in stock around £120.

Be careful what pair you choose since the Senn HD580/600/650s thats been mentioned here there all open back which means the sound gets leaked straight out so whatever u listen to your wife can listen too if your in the same room.

As for the headphone amp plenty headphone amps about but depending on which headphone u get u may feel u dont even need the headphone amp... so id not waste $$$ id get some good easily driven headphones like the A900s and then see if u like the sound 1st and then if u feel u need more power/better sound check for headphone amps.

I done research for 3 months on headphones and days afterwards I found a more suitable pair of headphones only £20 more.... now I gotta try selling these Senn HD595s off for 80 quid Take your time deciding/possibly check if u can demo the equipement/test it home and check return policy etc.

[Reano]

The Open cans are good for marriages as they allow you to hear your wife and nod apprieciatingly. You don't want your wife to be calling you and you don't answer "...all you do all day is sit there with those headphones on and you don't hear a word I say..." <--- Of course this does not happen to those in the 'open cans' His post did say keep the noise down, not out However there are a few of those headphones in the threads that are closed back.
I don't think anyone is saying you 'MUST' get headphone amps. Your ears can tell you what you like best hence the review suggestion.

[HighlandeR]

Originally Posted by Reano

The Open cans are good for marriages as they allow you to hear your wife and nod apprieciatingly. You don't want your wife to be calling you and you don't answer "...all you do all day is sit there with those headphones on and you don't hear a word I say..." <--- Of course this does not happen to those in the 'open cans' His post did say keep the noise down, not out However there are a few of those headphones in the threads that are closed back.
I don't think anyone is saying you 'MUST' get headphone amps. Your ears can tell you what you like best hence the review suggestion.

Give it a few months and he can always come back to this post

If you're looking for sennheiser, then the HD580 can be had for around £80. The only difference between this and the HD600 is the cosmetics, and slightly poorer driver matching. So take the 580's, and then look at a headphone amp. What about something "fun" like the firestone audio cute beyond?
http://www.firestone-audio.com/
There have been some good reviews of this as an excellent budget component, and they reviewed it with the HD600, so you know there's gonna be synergy...
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/blueberry/trio.html

Just my 2 cents...

[TameRacingDriver]

Originally Posted by NicolasB

I disagree entirely, I'm afraid. Buy yourself some HD650s (they're about £180 new on eBay). Even without an amp they will sound better than an amp + 'phones that cost £200 between them.

I've had two pairs of HD650. I dont need another, thanks. The HD580 and a GOOD amp WILL sound better than a poorly driven 650, no doubt whatsoever.

TBH, there isnt a huge difference between the 580 and 650 anyway given the same source + amp.

[extremelydodgy]

Originally Posted by pbirkett

TBH, there isnt a huge difference between the 580 and 650 anyway given the same

mediocre

source + amp.

[TameRacingDriver]

There really isnt, except the 650 sounds marginally more detailed and natural, and a whole lot duller sounding in the treble.

[extremelydodgy]

Not really. True about the more detailed and natural, but the treble diffusion isn't really that excessive. I suppose it depends on what your amp makes of the more efficient HD650.

[NicolasB]

Personally I thought there was quite a big difference between the HD600 and HD650, but maybe I'm picky.

[StevieDvd]

When I had both and tried them together from the same source (split output) the 650 had deeper bass which I suppose could appear to reduce the treble. They also had a little more detail but the difference is quite small and would be hard to spot on an average setup. Note I'm not saying anyone here is using something average but the amount of people who expect a HD650 to sound heaps better than the HD600 on a PC soundcard based on price difference is frightening.

The 600s got sold (to a lucky young guy here at avforums) but had budget been an issue the HD600 would have been acceptable.

[TameRacingDriver]

Originally Posted by StevieDvd

the amount of people who expect a HD650 to sound heaps better than the HD600 on a PC soundcard based on price difference is frightening.

Which is what i was getting at originally

At the end of the day: £250 underdriven HD650 = poor sound, weak and lifeless versus £100 HD580 and £150 headphone amp (i.e. Gilmore Lite) = much better.

I'm staggered to see anyone would actually argue this point TBH.

As for HD600 v's 650, horses for courses, but I think the difference between them is very over exagerrated on any rig i've heard them on.

Perhaps most people who use the 650 might use better quality peripherals in the first place, so widening the difference.

But then, neither of them are my cup of tea