[Grr Argh]

Ok, I just wanted some decent headphones but after extensively reading about different types of headphones, dacs, headphone amps, better sources etc. I am so much further from making a purchase than when I started!

So, my question is this:

Is buying a pair of Sennheiser HD 650's for £219.99 to use with my Onkyo 606 & PS3 a terrible terrible idea?

As always all opinions appreciated

[eaglemmoomin]

Be better if you were a naked lady...

Its not a terrible idea at all but you'll probably need to get a headphone amp as well as the HD600/HD650 are 300ohm impedance headphones and not too sensitive. Generally head phones impedances are if memory serves in three bands 32ohms, 50ohms then 300ohms. You'd need to look in your Onkyo's manual or ask an Onkyo fanatic to check that the headphone output will drive 300 ohm headphones properly with good dynamics (it should especially if the main amp channels are being used to drive the output).

[Drubbing]

Originally Posted by eaglemmoomin

Be better if you were a naked lady...

Its not a terrible idea at all but you'll probably need to get a headphone amp as well as the HD600/HD650 are 300ohm impedance headphones and not too sensitive. Generally head phones impedances are if memory serves in three bands 32ohms, 50ohms then 300ohms. You'd need to look in your Onkyo's manual or ask an Onkyo fanatic to check that the headphone output will drive 300 ohm headphones properly with good dynamics (it should especially if the main amp channels are being used to drive the output).

Not quite, headphones come in all sorts of impedances, but the general rule is less than 100ohms can be run without an amp (there's are a few exceptions).

600/650 needs power a plenty, and integrated maps usually have that, but they can be variable in the headphone out stages, which means all your money is then trusted to a 25p component. Even some really good amps have poor HO, because their primary purpose lies elsewhere.

Advantage of a headphone amp is it won't scrimp on these parts, but a good one to run those phones will probably cost as much again.

And if it's for music, you could find the PS3 wanting. Again, built with a different purpose in mind, namely video over audio.

[Grr Argh]

Thanks for the replies, though they leave me as confused about what to do as I was before haha.

Ok to put it another couple of ways:

1. If I only had £220 to spend, given my current setup, would the 650's be a good choice or would a different set of headphones sound better?

2. If I was looking to buy the 650's now with the intent of buying more components in the future (headphone amp etc.) would they be decent for using now with my current setup or would they sound genuinely bad and lacking?

[Steven]

The HD600 and HD650 scale up gorgeously well. They sound great on £300 kit and scale up in awesomeness to £2000 kit

I prefer the HD600. HD650 veil and darker sound not for me, but up to the individual

[Drubbing]

Originally Posted by Grr, Argh!

1. If I only had £220 to spend, given my current setup, would the 650's be a good choice or would a different set of headphones sound better?

2. If I was looking to buy the 650's now with the intent of buying more components in the future (headphone amp etc.) would they be decent for using now with my current setup or would they sound genuinely bad and lacking?

Get them, but do your outlay justice by getting the right back up gear for them as and when you can. They won't sound terrible, but a different headphone could be just as good and enjoyable, and not need an amp. So you'd then only need to upgrade your source.

It's your call, but it's as well you're aware of some phones needing plenty of power, or you just don't get your money's worth.

[shark17]

Originally Posted by Grr, Argh!

Ok, I just wanted some decent headphones but after extensively reading about different types of headphones, dacs, headphone amps, better sources etc. I am so much further from making a purchase than when I started!

So, my question is this:

Is buying a pair of Sennheiser HD 650's for £219.99 to use with my Onkyo 606 & PS3 a terrible terrible idea?

As always all opinions appreciated

Ive recently Been after just the same thing to use with my PS3/360 through my Denon amp. I was originally looking at HD650s but was advised against them as they need a dedicated amp for them to shine and they arent the best for gaming anyway.

After much research and buying and sending back a pair of HD595s because they werent up to the job I finally found the Audio Technia ATH-AD900s and they are fantastic with games and sound Gorgeous with music.

Theres plenty of threads about them and other suitable canditates on Head-Fi.org

Good Luck.

[Drubbing]

Originally Posted by shark17

After much research and buying and sending back a pair of HD595s because they werent up to the job I finally found the Audio Technia ATH-AD900s and they are fantastic with games and sound Gorgeous with music.

Theres plenty of threads about them and other suitable canditates on Head-Fi.org

Good Luck.

These are the sorts of phones I'm talking about. If gaming is your main thing, then the AD700 would be worth a look too.

[Grr Argh]

That was some good responses there. OK, I'm now taking a step back - if I am going to move to an easier to drive set of cans then I'm in a totally different bracket and set of comparisons. Also, if this is the case I could possibly use these with my (brace yourselves...) iPhone when I'm out and about. I realise this isn't the best source in the world but it would be good to get the most out of it as I'm just using some cheap sony in-ears at the moment.

So, with that in mind... any new suggestions? Or should I be looking at a seperate decent set of in-ears for my iPhone?

Also is there anything I should know about getting the most out of the iPhone as a DAP such as getting a mini portable dock/amp/dac to use with it?

*EDIT* I've got a cmoy altoids pocket amp kicking about somewhere if that's of any relevance here.

[happyhomer]

The iPhone shouldn't have any problems driving the AD700's (32ohm impedance), but you may not want to wear them out & about due to their size (thet are big!) and they're not the best at blocking extraneous sound due to them being open-backed (I've got a pair and love them, but wouldn't wear them out doors). That said, given your original budget, getting a pair of AD700's would leave you with enough to get a decent pair of sound-isolating buds for your iPhone. Soundmagic PL50's would be an option, but there are plenty of others as well.

[Steven]

In Ear Monitors

Lots of choice. Shure, Westone, UE, list goes on. They are essentially ear plugs with drivers and a cable attached if you are wondering about that aspect

[Grr Argh]

Thanks again for the replies.

I decided to buy some decent IEMs and bide my time til I can sound test several sets of headphones.

This unfortunately prompted an impulse buy on my part... I went out at lunchtime and bought a set of Klipsch S45i earbuds! I shall however make a new thread concerning my experience with these.

[eaglemmoomin]

Originally Posted by Drubbing

Not quite, headphones come in all sorts of impedances, but the general rule is less than 100ohms can be run without an amp (there's are a few exceptions).

600/650 needs power a plenty, and integrated maps usually have that, but they can be variable in the headphone out stages, which means all your money is then trusted to a 25p component. Even some really good amps have poor HO, because their primary purpose lies elsewhere.

Advantage of a headphone amp is it won't scrimp on these parts, but a good one to run those phones will probably cost as much again.

And if it's for music, you could find the PS3 wanting. Again, built with a different purpose in mind, namely video over audio.

A 300ohm headphone is an easier load to drive for an amplifier than a 32 ohm headphone. You are ignoring sensitivity the 600/650 are less sensitive than some other phones so a little bit more is needed on the volume. Its the same thory that applies to full size speakers. A lot of amps just have a resistor in series with the main channels so a headphone amp is'nt really needed if the amp is of decent quality in the first place (its cheaper to just use a resistor than put a another amplification circuit in there) as you can't be seriously telling me that the OPs mid range Onkyo is going to have trouble driving headphones.

[Drubbing]

Originally Posted by eaglemmoomin

you can't be seriously telling me that the OPs mid range Onkyo is going to have trouble driving headphones.

No, I never said that. Read the post. I said such an amp probably has plenty of power, but the headphone out components vary wildly in quality. Because they're primarily use is for connecting to speakers, and HO are often way down the list of priorities in their manufacture. Some are good, some are ultra cheap and terrible.

So the potential is, with an int amp, you have a supercharged V8, and you're driving it in bicycle tyres.

[24 P]

To OP, you could get the 600s/650s, I have the 600s and I have used them on an old Kenwood, JVC amp and they sounded fine, but where they really shine is through the HP amp I have.
TW 2.6 or something like that.
The difference is night and day, better highs, clearer mids, and no more muddy bass.
So if you are happy to listen to them like this, and not at loud volumes, as I would never trust any HP output of any AMP/AVR to do what a serious HP amp can do, and save for a dedicated HP amp, then go this route.
The cans are nice, but they need power to drive them, they are hungry, hence dedicated HP amp..
Just don't try and drive them too hard till, if you do decide to go a HP amp, save for em and you will have an ear to ear grin..

[darkpoet]

I was going to buy the hd650 as they seemed to be the best headphone at that money, but really your paying more for them because you need an amp to pair with them, and a good source, so i bought instead some sennheiser hd25-1 headphones and had them customised at customcans.co.uk

theyre comfortable, lightweight, hard wearing, stylish, portable, suitable for all sources and sound great, ..and cheaper

[24 P]

HD 25 -1s are nice too, I have a pair and they work well and are robust.
I use them when traveling, have the 600s as well, use the 600s as they are a better can, but the 25s kick butt for the $ and how small they are..
What up grades did you do? Just cabling??