cheers, its ok, I got them. Almost dropped to the 228's to save some money, but then noticed on the packaging in the shop a bass-o-meter with almost all bars lit up.....which means they are flooded with bass to offset the lack of bass on a lot of mp3 recordings. Not what I want.
So, I got the 238's and am fairly happy with them. Need a headphone amp now tho, these puppies are hard to drive. Even my netbooks output wont go loud enough

and my phones output is limited as well with these.
Ever so slightly heavy on the bass for my liking at the moment, but they do appear to be losing that slight muddiness so I'm guessing its a wear them in type thing.
love the light airyness, although didnt realise they were openback jobs, not so great for work as it means having them on lower volume but hey ho.