Sennheiser HD 650 and Denon AVR-3808

[piizei]

Im looking for decent headphones, which I could use without buying a separate amp for headphones. Seems like there are very strong opinions against using AVR with any headphones, which I can fully understand when it comes to entry level AVRs. I still have hard time believing that Denon would whip out a mid-range AVR (3808) with headphone out that was all but useless.

Has anyone tried AVR-3808 with high impedance headphones like Sennheiser HD 650 or would I be better of with something else? Im sure I will try get headphones for test listening if possible, but it would e nice to hear some experiences and rule out bad choices if possible. I only have experience with IEM so Im sure any shared experiences would help me out.

[piizei]

I guess there are not so many experiences with Sennheiser HD 650 and AVR-3808. What about AV-receivers with headphones generally? Or no-one dares to admit and risk losing all that hi-fi cred gained with hard work

There's a thread in Read First -section discussing whether a separate headphone amp is necessary, but I havent found many comments from people using AV-receivers (mid-range or better). Just opinions and speculations that certain headphones require a separate headphone amp to get the best out of them.

[alexs2]

Originally Posted by piizei

I guess there are not so many experiences with Sennheiser HD 650 and AVR-3808. What about AV-receivers with headphones generally? Or no-one dares to admit and risk losing all that hi-fi cred gained with hard work

There's a thread in Read First -section discussing whether a separate headphone amp is necessary, but I havent found many comments from people using AV-receivers (mid-range or better). Just opinions and speculations that certain headphones require a separate headphone amp to get the best out of them.

I'd left replying to this as I don't have experience specific to the combination you have.....as you've asked about something more general,here's my 5p's worth.

I had a set of HD600s' which my son now uses,and have used these with a variety of sources and amplification,from iPods,to a very costly 300B based triode amp.

In short,getting the best out of the Hd600/650 does take not only good source material,but also a decent amplifier,and the headphone outputs of many receivers do not fall into the best category for sure.

Some are quite good,but a lot are pretty poor,and whilst ALL of them will work,the results may not be as good as you can get,but you do have to take into account the source as well,as even the best headphone amp and headphones,won't overcome a poor first link in the chain.

[Drubbing]

Originally Posted by alexs2

In short,getting the best out of the Hd600/650 does take not only good source material,but also a decent amplifier,and the headphone outputs of many receivers do not fall into the best category for sure.

Some are quite good,but a lot are pretty poor,and whilst ALL of them will work,the results may not be as good as you can get,but you do have to take into account the source as well,as even the best headphone amp and headphones,won't overcome a poor first link in the chain.

Absolutely. It's not about cred and accumulation of shiny toys to impress. Quite a number of these high end phones like the 650 will run and play on even the most basic audio equipment, like portable players - but it's not what they built for, and they won't reveal anything near their capability.

THe inherent assumption from the makers is if you're going to lay down decent money for their high end stuff, you've got the ancillaries covered. If you are going to get decent phones you really should get the equipment they need to run properly to realise your outlay, and their capability.

Headphone amps build in application-specific components, and it's not just about power output. Even in good receivers, the headphone out can sometimes be virtually a throwaway item, because it's main function lies elsewhere.

If you do go for some phones, try them out on your AVR, and see how they go, then when you're familiar with their sound, try them with your source and a good dedicated amp (assuming you've got a hifi store handy which stocks a few) and then you'll get a gauge of the AVR to drive them.

[Trey4Life]

I've listened to a set of these

on a Denon 2307 receiver and i have to say they sounded fantastic.
I'd imagine the 3808 would sound better with Sennheiser's

[Drubbing]

Just because those Panasonics sound good on it, it isn't a given that a high end phone like the HD650 would also benefit.

See Alexis' post. He's had the 650s.

[piizei]

After some more reading I ended up trying Grados headphones, which have very low impedance even on the higher end cans (32ohms). Bought Grado SR225 at the end. Very happy with them so far.

Compared to running them on Denon AVR-3808 and dedicated headphone amp, there is hardly any noticeable difference. The treble is slightly less controlled with Denon, which can be only noticed on very specific examples, but otherwise a great match.

So if you're planning on using headphones without a dedicated amp, Grados are definitely the way to go and worth a try. Perhaps not as comfortable as Sennheisers but comfortable enough.

[Reano]

Originally Posted by piizei

After some more reading I ended up trying Grados headphones, which have very low impedance even on the higher end cans (32ohms). Bought Grado SR225 at the end. Very happy with them so far.

Compared to running them on Denon AVR-3808 and dedicated headphone amp, there is hardly any noticeable difference. The treble is slightly less controlled with Denon, which can be only noticed on very specific examples, but otherwise a great match.

So if you're planning on using headphones without a dedicated amp, Grados are definitely the way to go and worth a try. Perhaps not as comfortable as Sennheisers but comfortable enough.

great stuff was gonna try my hd650 on the 4308 as that is almost the same as the 3808 but since u r happy it wont matter.... but i may try em anyway

[piizei]

Originally Posted by Reano

great stuff was gonna try my hd650 on the 4308 as that is almost the same as the 3808 but since u r happy it wont matter.... but i may try em anyway

Let us know how it works out for you and if possible try to demo hd650 with a dedicated amp so you can compare them to your 4308. And good luck