[jerrymac]

Ok, the concensus here seems to be that for short runs any cheap HDMI cable is as good as the most expensive when we are talking about 1M or less in length.

So, my question is why are 5 port HDMI switches selling for around 50 Euro on ebay and a 5 Port octivia selling for upto 280 Euro on AV sites?

Surely its the same principle? HDMI pass through?

Please correct me if I'm wrong....

[davepuma]

Most HDMI cables are made in the same factories by the looks of things but with switching and HDMI distribution things get a little more complicated. I won't get into the ins and outs of it as there are far more qualified people to explain it but put it this way, I have used a cheap switching box (<£30) and it failed miserably and a brand name unit costing £65 (Oppo HM31) and it worked flawlessly and first time and is the one I invested my own money in. Some folks have got lucky with cheap units but a lot of people haven't. It's like anything else, you get what you pay for. After all, why pay £loads for a Pioneer Plasma, Denon amp, Monitor Audio speakers etc. for example, then hook it all up using some cheap tat ebay special and then wonder why it either doesn't work or fails a few months down the line. Buy once is my motto.

[jerrymac]

I understand what your saying but surely the limited ( I would expect ) electronics difference between a functional cheap unit and the more expensive brand name unit couldnt justify the insane price difference?

Leaving aside other goodies and things like auto sensing of inputs etc and just comparing base functionality of the unit to deliver a HDMI output to the TV, if both work then what would make one work "better" than the other?
Surely the digital signal either arrives at the destination or it doesnt?

Is is possible for a cheapie to actually degrade a digital signal?
If so how?

[nokmond]

Originally Posted by jerrymac

I understand what your saying but surely the limited ( I would expect ) electronics difference between a functional cheap unit and the more expensive brand name unit couldnt justify the insane price difference?

Leaving aside other goodies and things like auto sensing of inputs etc and just comparing base functionality of the unit to deliver a HDMI output to the TV, if both work then what would make one work "better" than the other?
Surely the digital signal either arrives at the destination or it doesnt?

Is is possible for a cheapie to actually degrade a digital signal?
If so how?

I have a £20 switcher and it works flawlessly. Save your money!

[davepuma]

Originally Posted by nokmond

I have a £20 switcher and it works flawlessly. Save your money!

At least post the make/model so as to be a little more helpful!!

[MarkTaylor]

The main difference is that the switch has to get involved in the hand-shake chain and so becomes part of the sequence that ensures your devices can all talk to each other correctly.

The degree to which a switch works depends entirely on which pieces of equipment are being connected so a £20 unit may work fine for one person with their specific equipment and then not work at all for you with your equipment.

The more expensive units have much better electronics and will work with a wider range of source and display units.

Avoid unpowered units that leach power from the HDMI cable, they may work if you are lucky but they are also more likely to have problems.

[Joe Fernand]

Hello jerrymac

Take a set of HDMI Input and Output chips and solder them onto a PCB and even minor differences in the layout of the tracks on the PCB can have an effect on the signal passing through the Switch - some of the low cost unit with poorly laid out PCB's will work at 1080p on certain Inputs but not others if the tracks that carry the signal across the PCB have been laid out badly.

Then factor in that a Switch is a part of an Active signal path and can cause problems to the Video/Audio signal (resulting in visual errors/degradation), disrupt the DDC channel that allows the Source to communicate with the Display device and or cause problems with the HDCP negotiations that have to take place when you have copy protected content.

Then factor in that you will likely have a mix of Transmitter and Receiver Chip versions in your Source and Display devices - your now relying on decent Programming of the Input/Output chips employed by the Switch Manufacturer to ensure you get good interoperability between all of the devices attached to the Switch.

Then factor in that any one of your Source devices (or Display) may be Outputting a signal that's on the limit of being acceptable in terms of what an HDMI signal ought to be - at which stage an HDMI Switch with adaptive signal regeneration is a good move.

Then factor in quality control of the Switch manufacturing.

As you can see lots of places where a Switch can cause a problem in a system.

Joe

[andy1249]

A cable is well defined , in that they are all constucted the same way , different materials maybe , but they all consist of the same amount of wires and the same plugs.

A Switch on the other hand , is not well defined , so say someone selling a £20 switch may be selling a box with a straight a-b switchover inside , and someone selling a " Switch" for £200 may be selling a box with a signal conditioner , booster , multiple live output electronics circuitry , etc etc , and it still falls under the term " Switch ".

So there you have it , you cant really say all switches are the same like you can say all cables are the same , as there is most likely active circuitry in there and there are huge variations on what can be done!

[jerrymac]

I had already bought one of these cheap units months ago and it works great but I was wondering if I was missing something or if the others were really "better". As I say , my purchase has so far worked flawlessly...I dont see any picture degradation with it in the chain, at least to my eyes...
I have 4 of the 5 inputs in use and have seen no issues.
Link below if if anyone was interested as Davepuma asked for a link to one..

http://cgi.ebay.com/5-Port-HDMI-Swit...742.m153.l1262

[nokmond]

Originally Posted by davepuma

At least post the make/model so as to be a little more helpful!!

http://www.play.com/Electronics/Elec...h/Product.html

There you go!

[HDMIHead]

Originally Posted by nokmond

http://www.play.com/Electronics/Elec...h/Product.html

There you go!

You still have not replied to the question make/model?

[HDMIHead]

Originally Posted by jerrymac

I had already bought one of these cheap units months ago and it works great but I was wondering if I was missing something or if the others were really "better". As I say , my purchase has so far worked flawlessly...I dont see any picture degradation with it in the chain, at least to my eyes...
I have 4 of the 5 inputs in use and have seen no issues.
Link below if if anyone was interested as Davepuma asked for a link to one..

http://cgi.ebay.com/5-Port-HDMI-Swit...742.m153.l1262

Have you tried SKY HD on the switch?

[nokmond]

Originally Posted by Hdmihead

You still have not replied to the question make/model?

I've provided a link to the one i use. Its not a rip off one and it works perfectly. One day you might stock them. And no, haven't checked if its gold plated, got snake skin cover or has 28AWG wire inside it. It works.

[jerrymac]

Originally Posted by Hdmihead

Have you tried SKY HD on the switch?

Yes, currently connected are SkyHD, HTPC, Oppo 980H & KW6900i.

No problem with any of them and no visible difference between direct connection or connection via switch.

Why the question about SkyHD? Is that known to cause problems?

[Joe Fernand]

Hello jerrymac

If the Switch is functioning as required then there is no requirement to Swap it out.

Joe

[HDMIHead]

Yes, HDMI Switches in the past have had problems with SKY HD.
Also we were interested in the oppo unit.. is it any good?

[Mark Grant]

Originally Posted by jerrymac

Why the question about SkyHD? Is that known to cause problems?

Sky HD has a problem with Pin 13 on the HDMI socket.

A google search find some comments on various forums

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...UK%7CcountryGB

Sky HDMI Pin 13 Problem


Mark.

[jerrymac]

Originally Posted by Hdmihead

Yes, HDMI Switches in the past have had problems with SKY HD.
Also we were interested in the oppo unit.. is it any good?

I was a sceptic as regards spending money for brand name electronics since its known that a lot of OEMs source the product from the same manufacturer and just rebrand them , but I had the Kingwell 6900i, a Tevia (an aldi item), and a DK Digital 500. All cheap units. I read the great reviews on the Oppo some months back and bought one. It beats the other 3 hands down. I got rid of the Tevia and the DK Digital. The only reason I kept the KW6900i was that it upscales over component and I was using this into a projector. But picture wise on TV the Oppo is streets ahead.

[andy1249]

Sky HD has a problem with Pin 13 on the HDMI socket.

Pin 13 is the CEC pin or the control electronics , this is an optional feature of any HDMI implementation and as its a programmable option tends to be done differently by each and every manufacturer ,

For Panasonic , their implementation is called Viera link , the others are as follows

Anynet (Samsung), Aquos Link (Sharp), BRAVIA Theatre Sync (Sony), Regza Link (Toshiba), RIHD (Onkyo), Simplink (LG), Viera Link/EZ-Sync (Panasonic/JVC), Easylink (Philips) and NetCommand for HDMI (Mitsubishi)

Sky's implementation , or indeed anybodys implementation of this programmable feature is not guaranteed to work with anybody elses implementation of the feature.

So its not specifically a Sky HD problem , its an incompatibility problem. There have been some comical threads on here about it , with people having " success" by cutting the pin out , which is a bit extreme but bound to work naturally , the fact is that CEC is not fully implemented or indeed not implemented at all by a lot of manufacturers and causes lots of problems across a lot of equipment. Only equipment of the same brand is guaranteed to work together, and even then , earlier and later models may have trouble.

Depending on how any specific " Switch " is implemented , it may or may not pass on the CEC control signals from the source to the TV , indeed it may cut them out and implement its own depending on how sophisticated the switch is !

For anyone with a lot of equipment from different manufacturers having trouble with pin 13 CEC implementations , dont butcher anything , just turn the feature off and go get a universal remote like a Harmony or something.
I'd recommend the Harmony because it has the " Activities" feature where you say , choose play an SACD or Blu-Ray , and it just sets each piece of equipment up for you.

[andy1249]

http://cgi.ebay.com/5-Port-HDMI-Swit...742.m153.l1262

By the way , if said switch has all it says it has then this is indeed a very impressive piece of gear for the price.

With long HDMI runs the chief problem is attenuation , or loss of amplitude due to distance , not bandwidth. A box with an amlifier will indeed bring the majority of long HDMI cables back into working order.

This makes way more sense than buying a super expensive cable , as attenuation being chiefly a resistive effect no amount of shielding and gold will make that much difference.

[Joe Fernand]

Hello andy1249

True if you put the 'Amplified' Box at the 'far end' of the Problematic cable - though not much use in the majority of installs at the 'front end' of a long Output cable.

Joe

[andy1249]

majority of installs

If the " majority" of installs were thought out properly , then the box would be in the right place , given the price of the box ( £20 ) , it makes way more sense to have this just prior to the projector instead of shelling out silly money for a cable which will just barely do the job.

I say projector , because in truth , the majority of HDMI installs dont need long runs , just projector installs.

[Joe Fernand]

Hello andy1249

I guess your not counting the Thousands of folk who want a 'Telly' above the Mantelpiece and the AV kit at the opposite end of the Sitting room

Joe

[andy1249]

How many thousands of people have a sitting room more than 15 meters long ?

Thats nearly 45 feet ..... up to that length most cables have no issues whatsoever ! Besides , if you can hide cables you can hide a small box.

There is no justification for uber expensive digital cables , absolutely none !

[Joe Fernand]

Hello andy1249

You'd be amazed at how much cable even a relatively small room takes once you start going up into roof voids and the like - very few installs have the luxury of a straight run!!!

A few extra pounds spent on a cable you know 'always' works is nothing compared to redecorating a room if you have to rip out a cable that's not delivering; especially so if your the Installer and not the Home Owner!

Joe

[simon123]

Joe is wright, The home owner may take the risk, but as an installer I would only ever first fix a cable I know would work and this isn't because I want to make a extra few quid.

business reputations can soon disapear with a client who's system doesn't perform well.