The Emperors new machines ... or cables ?
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21-11-2009, 1:23 AM
| #1 |
| New Member  |  The Emperors new machines ... or cables ?
Trust me, I'm danish and know the story of the naked emperor by our national writer H.C. Andersen ...  Nevertheless I find it "doubly" amusing that people here at AVForums, mainly uses the Emperor-story to ridicule those who have other experiences with different HDMI-cables, than defined by a standard-description ! Talk about following the stream/ the standards/ the self-indulging Emperor ?!?!?  But lynch-mobs aside ... there is a comical relief ahead, for I remember clearly the "better" sound of the good old radio-tubes and the "better" analogue feel of the vinyl-records or maybe I don't ?  Maybe we should make fun of those guys ?  Or maybe we should make fun of all the people here putting 10-20 or 50 times more money on NEXT-YEARS-MACHINES that may or may not show or sound a little bit better ?!?!?  Maybe they're lucky to get free N.Y.M.-samples so they can test and tell all others what to buy ...  Or maybe they firmly believe that the "cable-people" are an inferior race ?!  WELL, I've noticed the read-first-forum HDMI Cables - Just the facts ... has added a sick greenish "commandment " : [Important note added by admin : Different HDMI cables do not affect the quality of the picture. FACT. Reviews stating that cables produce a 'more natural image' or 'better colours' are complete rubbish. See this video for the latest info on HDMI 1.4 as of July 2009.] (Blue Meanies or Main Greenies ?  )Well, who am I to tell that it is OK to buy expensive machines ... but not cables ?  Maybe Your "logical"  AV-souls can't explain my "strange" experience with different HDMI-cables,then since I'm not an AV-enthusiast and NobodyImportant, You shouldn't worry ! But first let me tell You that I tested different price-categories and I didn't expect to see differences . Why ? Because I don't have to care about money  (or AVforum-status), so expensive cables cannot influence my observances . And I saw there were clear differences even between 1-meter-cables like QED, NordOst & Wireworld ... I'm sorry guys, maybe I'm just a naughty little boy, but those expensive cables improved a very cheap 80$ DVDplayer to equal a Denon 3930 (2000$) in at least picture ! What if everyone could upgrade their system by spending a fraction of a machine-price on a cabel ? The AV-machine-companies wouldnt earn that much money more and maybe AVForum wouldn't get supported by the AV-machine-companies ? Oh, I better keep quiet, right ?  (Maybe I'll get banned now? Oh, please don't - I'll keep quiet !)
Last edited by NobodyImportant; 21-11-2009 at 1:36 AM. |
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21-11-2009, 7:50 AM
| #2 | |
| Distinguished Member | Quote:
I do like a detailed review especially one that's so objective. Often the best way to convince people is by providing supporting objective evidence. Failing that perhaps Sigmund Freud's work would be be more relevant. He's isn't Danish but his area of expertise maybe more appropriate.  AVI Last edited by Avi; 21-11-2009 at 9:36 AM. | |
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21-11-2009, 12:09 PM
| #3 | |
| Prominent Member | Quote:
Some other forums may be in the habit of removing posts just because they don't support their reviews and opinions, we do not do that. If you are happy with the way your low cost DVD player looks then just enjoy it. What we do want to ensure is that nobody falls for the marketing used by some suppliers or subjective reviews of others and believes they have to spend lots of cash to get a 'better' image via HDMI when that is just not technically possible nor has it even been proven to be the case in any proper double-blind subjective review or any technical analysis. Individuals who can convince themselves otherwise can spent their money as they wish of course, we just don't want other people to waste money to no good end. If you want to buy a cable made of better materials for in-wall installation, or an amplified cable to assist with running over longer distances then those are great reasons to buy appropriate cables at higher cost, but never do it in the misguided belief that you can see a difference between two correctly working cables. | |
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21-11-2009, 12:21 PM
| #4 | |
| New Member | Quote:
except we Danes wouldn't call an honest opinion about forum-bullying for a review - but then again some people may have a fixation for machines ? Actually I tried to post an opinion poll ..... but didn't manage to make 1 in the restricted 2  minutes ?!So instead I edited my post into an irony over Men & Machines and as a great admirer and reader of Freud, I can only answer You : There's probably less sexual neuroticism in the term Men & Cables (or Wires ?) !!!  | |
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21-11-2009, 12:32 PM
| #5 | |
| New Member |  Quote:
Actually I do have a low cost DVD player called OPPO ... but YOU say have a better DVD-player ? I don't care about reviews or analysis made by subjective people ! Science is a much vaster field than technicians and lab-people can paradigmize experiments into ! I just give an opinion about forum-bullying and dare anyone to come and see the difference on my conditions ! Have a nice day, I have to travel now ! | |
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21-11-2009, 12:47 PM
| #6 |
| Prominent Member | |
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21-11-2009, 1:34 PM
| #7 | |
| Distinguished Member | Quote:
Opinions are great but not always based in fact. It's useful to other members if supporting information can be provided to establish if something is just an opinion or it can be objectively substantiated. Best way to convince people is provide evidence to support a claim. Here's a great example of some comparison work an Italian site did comparing raw image data from different Blu-ray players and analysing the difference at a pixel data level (Lettori Blu-ray: le differenze che non esistono). I don't know how they captured the data but it would be interesting to see if it was possible to introduce an HDMI cable in to the mix. The result of different cables from the same player/image could be compared at a pixel level. EDIT This thread may be of interest to you regarding some "blind" comparison work carried out by a number of forum members. It's a large thread and covers two comparison sessions. Here the link to the attendee feedback from the second session - http://www.avforums.com/forums/blu-r...l#post10668325 AVI Last edited by Avi; 21-11-2009 at 2:48 PM. | |
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22-11-2009, 4:41 AM
| #8 | ||
| New Member |  Forgive me for pointing out ... Quote:
My opinion was not about the cables at all !!! And the following opinion is definitely based on facts from this forum ! ************************************** "... people here at AVForums, mainly uses the Emperor-story to ridicule those who have other experiences ..." "... an honest opinion about forum-bullying ..." "I just give an opinion about forum-bullying ..." ************************************* Dear AVI and others who still thinks my posts are about the cable-economy, I hope You are back on the right track now ?  What do You think of the bullying and the persecution of people having other cable-experiences ? Or maybe You could find help in one of my favovorit-quotes : "It is not OK to be so blind that You try to poke out peoples eyes just for creating peers ..."  Quote : NobodyImportant Actually there are more minor opinions, hereafter named sub-opinions like : "Well, who am I to tell that it is OK to buy expensive machines ... but not cables ?" But I think anyone (not-to-focused on chasing cable-heretics !) will see this post is about the attitude towards others . Quote:
AVI, I couldn't agree more and if You really want me to prove cable-people are being bullied and persecutedI will start with presenting this very thread ...  ############################ May I say that otherwise I really enjoy the wealth of information and advanced skills of all You guys - including the "Machine-Men" (those who believe in expensive AV-machines and cheap cables ... ) -and I hope we'll all be friends again soon ... As a last gesture to the bullied and persecuted cable-people (and radio-tube-people/vinyl-records-people/etc  ) I will make a statement :I don't feel any need to have an opinion about something I dare anyone to come and see ...  ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ Or to qoute Schlomo : "Nasal reflex neurosis can be cured with new machines or coke !"  PS : MarkTaylor, I told You about my low-cost-OPPO ... ``` (which isn't the 80$ DVD-player in my top-post !) ``` What is the brand of Your high-cost-DVD-player ? ``` And You believe expensive machines are better ?!  Last edited by NobodyImportant; 22-11-2009 at 5:31 AM. | ||
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22-11-2009, 7:50 AM
| #9 | |
| Distinguished Member | Quote:
The "blind comparison" thread that is linked above provides an example of the above affect. When people are aware of the specific product being used they often claim to see/hear a clear performance difference (beyond any doubt) and this may be linked to a brand, price etc. When the same products are used but without the observers being aware of specific model the clear difference isn't as clear in many instances and can't be reliably identified. The change being there is no longer a preconception (conscious or subconscious) of performance. I'm sorry if you find differences of opinion, seeking evidence to support a claim or debate as bullying and persecution. But given the point above you can perhaps see why subjective feedback, no matter how honest or genuine, may be undermined my the human factor and not be a true measure of a products performance. I'm not sure this thread will add any technical value to the HDMI cable debate beyond the many others that have covered the same subject. In my opinion rather than "forum bullying and persecution" the thread shows an example of how people don't take a subjective opinion or claim as fact and seek supporting/detail evidence of what's different and why. I'd also ask similar questions and seek evidence to support claims made about hardware performance. AVI Last edited by Avi; 22-11-2009 at 8:51 AM. | |
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22-11-2009, 3:45 PM
| #10 |
| Prominent Member | |
| Thread Closed |
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