Samsung LE40B651 LCD HDTV Review

**The News Bot** · 21-04-2009, 6:15 PM

Reviewed by David Mackenzie
Really, this display is typical of most Samsung LCD HDTVs these days: impressive for the most part, chock-full of image processing options (both useful and not), and with a few quirks to anticipate as part of the package.
Read the full review...

Mumid · 21-04-2009, 7:08 PM

Good review mate. Did you use Calman for the calibration?

The auto dimming is very annoying. Did it not interfere with your gamma tracking when doing the calibration, the gamma seems pretty flat on the charts? Samsung also introduced this feature on last years models via a firmware update but there is a way to turn it off via the service menu. I agree that it is silly that they dont give control over this to the user but there is a school of thought that thinks they do it to hide any sets that have uneven backlighting.

Also, did you do any input lag tests with this TV?

MrT · 21-04-2009, 8:12 PM

Thanks for the review - do you think you could elaborate on the gaming part a little by any chance. In your review you've mentioned the game mode because there could be input lag but you've not really mentioned your experience of the lag itself, or what gaming system you tried. Also, what is the actual response time of this screen I can't find it on the samsung site or anywhere for that matter?

I've keep hearing that the lag is there, but on my own test in curry's with my own xbox360, I noticed it but didn't find it neccessary to engage the Game mode. Doing so led to picture degradation(obviously) and so I felt compelled to carry on with game mode off.

I'd be interested to hear more about your personal experience in this area ...

Thanks again ...

David Mackenzie · 21-04-2009, 10:47 PM

My own experiences were with a Playstation 3 outputting 1080p (so bypassing the TV's own scaling, and deinterlacing). I was playing Rayman (the original side-scroller, so the lag was obvious). The TV was lagging so much that it felt like the character was slipping around. It's the most lag I've ever seen on a TV, but didn't do a measurement.

As for the quoted response time of the panel, It will probably be about 8ms. That can be measured in various deceptive ways, though...

Mumid: yes, it was Calman. Good point about the gamma.

pwood · 21-04-2009, 11:03 PM

Great review. Easy to make up your mind with such unbiased report. I suppose the auto feature could be bypassed if Samsung provided a software update in the future. All that control over the picture and they take that bit of control away

tarabas · 22-04-2009, 2:12 PM

Great review

Could you please post all your settings you made in the Options? Some settings are not on the images you posted in the review.
Especially the Colour-Settings.

Sorry for my bad english

David Mackenzie · 22-04-2009, 2:29 PM

There would be almost no point, because the settings are specific to the rest of the hardware in the system and will only work correctly with this specific unit. If you want to make the quality of your own TV better but don't want to pay for a calibration, the best advice would be to turn off the gimmicky features like Dynamic Contrast, and use the "Warm2" mode.

PanMan · 22-04-2009, 4:28 PM

Thanks for the comprehensive review of this TV. I am struggling to decide between the Samsung LE40B650 and the Panasonic 42 G10. I know the differences between the 651 and 650 are cosmetic, and as you reviewed the Panasonic at the end of March, how do you feel they compare? I have only seen the two briefly, in the same shop, but showing different hi-def feeds. As I only have Sky+ as yet, but will buy a Bluray player at the same time as the TV, most of my viewing will be standard def. I was very impressed by the blacks of the Samsung in the shop, but the contrast seemed way too high (was showing Anne Lennox in concert on BBC HD).

I felt I saw some flicker on the Panasonic screen (was showing a Panasonic hi-def demo) even on still scenes, but though the picture looked rather muted compared to the Samsung - it was much more natural. The Panasonic Freesat would be great, but then I can always get a Freesat HD box for the Samsung. I suppose my main concern is poor-looking standard def on the Panasonic, and potential backlight bleed on the Samsung due the LCD technology. Is there anything you can add to help me for when I go back to the shop to have a better look at the two together - apart from more time and control of the remotes? Oh, and if I was your best friend - which would you recommend, and why!

David Mackenzie · 22-04-2009, 4:31 PM

Quote:

Oh, and if I was your best friend - which would you recommend, and why!

Panasonic 42G10. It's free of quirks and when set up correctly looks utterly brilliant.

mlaun · 22-04-2009, 5:37 PM

Hmmm... Actualy the CMS of the Samsungs are 3D controls. the use an additive mechanism. Change Hue (x,y) by adding different amount of colors, change luniesence (Y) by adding or subtracting all three colors.

David Mackenzie · 22-04-2009, 5:42 PM

Yeah, it was possible to change Hue, Saturation and Luminance in the way you describe, but not possible to get all colours having all three attributes correct at once.

mlaun · 22-04-2009, 6:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Mackenzie

Yeah, it was possible to change Hue, Saturation and Luminance in the way you describe, but not possible to get all colours having all three attributes correct at once.

Of course it isn't infinitly adjustable but u can get close as your own charts show

Here just one of many 'comment's from the boys across the pond:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post16047661

mlaun · 22-04-2009, 6:09 PM

And here Tom Huffmans description:
Basic Guide to Color Calibration using a CMS (updated and enhanced) - Page 32 - AVS Forum

PanMan · 22-04-2009, 6:15 PM

Thank you David, to be honest, though the media features are tempting, its probably the Panny side of the fence I'm settling down on. Now just to reassure my wife its one of life's essentials, and pray that 'Home and Away' in standard def still looks good compared to my faithful Panny 32" 100Hz CRT.

scrapbook · 22-04-2009, 7:30 PM

Any idea on when we are reviewing the uber new slim line panels...7020??

glesgaguyav · 22-04-2009, 7:37 PM

Can I ask why you use "movie" as the setting for calibration, does this mode have extra "behind the scenes" processing over the other picture settings ?personally I find "standard" is more pleasing too watch. Movie seems less vibrant to me.

I ask because you are not the only Tech to use Movie for calibration.

David Mackenzie · 22-04-2009, 7:42 PM

Movie will be less vibrant, off the top of my head it uses a dimmer default Backlight setting.

The reason we use Movie is because some TVs have behind the scenes tweaks going on, as you suggest (Panasonics most notably). "Cinema" or "Movie" modes tend to be the ones that have processing functions shut off, so we tend to trust these more.

Mumid · 22-04-2009, 7:44 PM

Guys if you look at the charts, David did manage to get his calibration pretty accurate so I dont think he needs patronising on how to calibrate a TV.

Seems to me like lag is the biggest problem with this set, I have seen it mentioned that tested it was at 60-80ms in game\pc mode. That is far too high for me. Its a shame Samsung have let slip in this area as the PC mode on last years 'A' series had sub 10ms input lag.

**Phil Hinton** · 22-04-2009, 7:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlaun

And here Tom Huffmans description:
Basic Guide to Color Calibration using a CMS (updated and enhanced) - Page 32 - AVS Forum

Thanks for your input. David's point and a correct one, is that you have no full adjustment of saturation or luminance with secondary colours with the approach Samsung use, hense asking for full hue, saturation and luminance controls for all points.

**Phil Hinton** · 22-04-2009, 8:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrapbook

Any idea on when we are reviewing the uber new slim line panels...7020??

B6000 due soon, just finishing it off.

David Mackenzie · 22-04-2009, 8:01 PM

I didn't read that as being patronised myself

Problem is, even although Samsung's interface will be consistent across TVs, the way it actually works behind the scenes won't be. I'll bet that it's possible to get Hue, Saturation and Luminance bang on using this menu on some of their other TVs, but it wasn't on the sample I received.

Mumid · 22-04-2009, 8:16 PM

I just thought that people pointing out that you can adjust the colourspace properly without proper hue, saturation controls etc was a bit obvious since you showed that you did calibrate the colourspace properly by posting up the calman charts. I think the colourspace controls on the Samsung are good but they are certainly not flawless. Being able to change the starting saturation and lightness of the primary colours would be a good improvement for one as well as like you mention, being able to turn off the dynamic dimming from the normal user menu.

tony_st83 · 24-04-2009, 1:30 PM

@David

Please tell me this: can 100Hz motion be applied to movies without making them look like video?

I think this is very important improvement, if it's true?!

Thanks

David Mackenzie · 24-04-2009, 3:20 PM

Yes, it's true. I think this feature was present on some high-end Sony X Series TVs as well.

mlaun · 24-04-2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mumid

Guys if you look at the charts, David did manage to get his calibration pretty accurate so I dont think he needs patronising on how to calibrate a TV.

...

????

Isn't it important to improve??

The reviews here are read by thousands. Any inconsistancy and or error should be pointed out. IMO that is in no way patronising. IMO it IS patronising when such feedback trivialised.

Mumid · 25-04-2009, 9:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlaun

????

Isn't it important to improve??

The reviews here are read by thousands. Any inconsistancy and or error should be pointed out. IMO that is in no way patronising. IMO it IS patronising when such feedback trivialised.

No your right mate, i just skip read your post but when i re-read it i see that what i said was out of order. Sorry mate. The links you posted up were good too. I agree with David though that there is still room for improvement in the CMS, it is not perfect by any means.

David Mackenzie · 25-04-2009, 1:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlaun

????

Isn't it important to improve??

The reviews here are read by thousands. Any inconsistancy and or error should be pointed out. IMO that is in no way patronising. IMO it IS patronising when such feedback trivialised.

I'm not sure I understand what the error is? I might be reading this wrong and completely missing the point?

mlaun · 25-04-2009, 4:43 PM

David,

you're report gives one the impression that the Samsungs CMS is not 3D. All I did was point out that it is. Nothing more nothing less.

David Mackenzie · 25-04-2009, 4:48 PM

Gotcha, yes, I see how that wording at the bottom could have been misleading. I've changed it to read, "Is it possible to full control over Hue, Saturation and Luminance in the Colour Management System?"

mlaun · 25-04-2009, 9:06 PM

hi again David,

Plugged in some of your data into my system. Am a bit surprised that you have 100% white at very dim 17 ft/L. Am reading somethong wrongly from the calman data? Or did you dilibratly choose such a setting?

thanx

EDIT: I think i found it. Calmam has per default Y as ft/L not cd/m. That puts 100% at 59 ft/L and it all makes sense. Sorry for bothering you on this.