[The News Bot]

Reviewed by David Mackenzie
Here we have a Plasma display with contrast performance previously reserved only for the high end, made available in smaller screen sizes, and for an amount of money that, recession or not, is a steal. The only limitations of this display are ones that can either be side-stepped by adding a high quality video processor, or ones that I can happily tolerate given its other strengths and bargain price. Highly recommended.
Read the full review...

[HenryHonda]

Hi David,

Excellent and timely review for those of us on the brink of a purchase - much appreciated.

Good to hear of the good 24p performance - which some of us were concerned about i.e. were we going to have to wait for the V series to get good quality rendition of BD material.

Very annoying that still no practical colour controls If you consider the cost of having an ISF calibrator visit to carry out the (very limited) service menu adjustments - compared to the overall cost of the TV - then things are heavily out of balance (unless a reduced charge could be negotiated because of limited options )

So the sonic performance is not too bad? Good to hear - for those of us that have experienced very good audio from PV500 and PZ800 series TVs, how would you say it compares?

Thanks again for a very useful review...

[audiphile76]

Excellent review, David! .

Few things which remained open (for me) after reading the review:
- Measured black level (in cd/m2)
- no mention of actual input lag for G10. Official figures say 2 ms but what was the measured figure?
- Remote is new and better buttons, a picture of the remote would have been nice
- IFC is it same as in previous model(PZ85) or is it newer and better? Only message i got from the review was that G10 is so good that you will not miss the IFC feature.

[Bob1103]

And a thanks from me. I've been eagerly waiting this review and I have to say it sounds even better than I hoped.

Is there any way we could find out what settings you used to calibrate the set, and what the ideal settings are with/without going into the service menu?

Also, what should this set be on during run-in?

[Phil Hinton]

Originally Posted by Bob1103

And a thanks from me. I've been eagerly waiting this review and I have to say it sounds even better than I hoped.

Is there any way we could find out what settings you used to calibrate the set, and what the ideal settings are with/without going into the service menu?

Also, what should this set be on during run-in?

We do not, and will not publish any settings because they will be of no use to you anyway, due to environment, sources and component tollerance differences. However, we have consistantly found with Panasonic sets, that set to 'Cinema' and colour temp 'warm' will get you close to being right (as per the out of the box measurements in the review.) Stick with these settings and you will get the best from it (other than a professional calibration). Give it a week and flick to normal and you will get a shock at how bad the images looks in those other modes - and how much detail and depth you lose. Hope that helps.

[Nemo1985]

Many thanks for the review But I'm a bit confused about whether this set has greyscal/white balance settings. In your review it says the tv doesn't have it but in this german preview it clearly says that when you enable the advanced settings (erweiterte einstellungen) you can access the greyscal/white balance settings. It also shows a picture of the settings. Am I missing something? Would appreciate if someone could clarify this for me.

PREVIEW: Panasonic G12 Full-HD-Plasma TX-P50GW10 (23.03.2009)


EDIT: I downloaded the manual from the dutch panasonic site and you can see on page 25 & 26 that when you enable the advanced settings you get access to the white balance settings. That is, if you are in the PC, normal or cinema mode.

http://www.panasonic.nl/Generic_Temp...M=1471|313|8|1

[alsina]

Originally Posted by Nemo1985

Many thanks for the review But I'm a bit confused about whether this set has greyscal/white balance settings. In your review it says the tv doesn't have it but in this german preview it clearly says that when you enable the advanced settings (erweiterte einstellungen) you can access the greyscal/white balance settings. It also shows a picture of the settings. Am I missing something? Would appreciate if someone could clarify this for me.

PREVIEW: Panasonic G12 Full-HD-Plasma TX-P50GW10 (23.03.2009)

The European models available in Germany have different menu options than the UK versions. You cannot adjust these settings in the user menus on the UK sets I'm afraid.

[mwardy]

Originally Posted by Nemo1985

Many thanks for the review But I'm a bit confused about whether this set has greyscal/white balance settings. In your review it says the tv doesn't have it but in this german preview it clearly says that when you enable the advanced settings (erweiterte einstellungen) you can access the greyscal/white balance settings. It also shows a picture of the settings. Am I missing something? Would appreciate if someone could clarify this for me.

PREVIEW: Panasonic G12 Full-HD-Plasma TX-P50GW10 (23.03.2009)

First, thanks for a detailed review.

But it looks like the European model has more picture adjustment options. Thanks Panasonic, glad to see you didn't want to overwhelm the stupid Brits with too many things to fiddle with. Edit: I see alsina has already confirmed this. But why do they do it??

Apart from white balance I see a gamma control there as well. How was gamma in the review set? (There's a line in the narrative but no numbers.) Can gamma be adjusted in the UK service menu? Apart from colour management this is the other big omission in the PXs and PZs.

[Nemo1985]

Originally Posted by alsina

The European models available in Germany have different menu options than the UK versions. You cannot adjust these settings in the user menus on the UK sets I'm afraid.

Ah, that explains it thanks. Glad I'm able to access these settings when my dutch model arrives on thursday. Bummer for all the people in the UK, doesn't make any sense to make these settings unavaible in the UK.

Edit: In the Uk manual on page 57 it says the white balance settings are availible for the PC input

[David Mackenzie]

Is this true? The European model lets you adjust white balance in the user menu?

The manual I have with the G10 says that there are white balance controls - but only in PC Mode (that's the VGA input).

Edit: just downloaded the manual for the European equivalent, the TX-P42G10E, and sure enough, there are user accessible white balance controls for High/Low Red and Blue (4 adjustments in total). I will be having strong words with Panasonic about this. Fortunately the full functionality is still there in the service mode, but this can be a pain to use.

[mjcairney]

David, as usual, another excellent review - thanks.

Cheers,

Martin.

[mwardy]

Originally Posted by David Mackenzie

Is this true? The European model lets you adjust white balance in the user menu?

I will be having strong words with Panasonic about this. Fortunately the full functionality is still there in the service mode, but this can be a pain to use.

Please do bend their ear! What could be the reasoning for this??

In the meantime, does your post mean that gamma is now adjustable/selectable in the service menu? I don't mind fiddling around in there and have greyscale dEs all less than 3, but gamma seems only vaguely controllable, and hard to get above (/below?) 2.0. Frustrating.

Tia.

[David Mackenzie]

Have just checked. There is no Gamma control even in service mode. So, the UK model is inferior in this regard.

Sort of takes the shine off it, doesn't it? What on earth could their reasoning for that be?

[Nemo1985]

Originally Posted by David Mackenzie

Have just checked. There is no Gamma control even in service mode. So, the UK model is inferior in this regard.

Sort of takes the shine off it, doesn't it? What on earth could their reasoning for that be?

I can't imagine a rational reasoning behind this choice. Could it be that a software update could 'fix' this? Could switching the language or region might change anything?

[mwardy]

If it has memories per setting (normal, eco etc.) as usual then perhaps the PC input could be used to calibrate white balance for the other inputs. (Not that that bothers me, as above.) So the next q is, is there a gamma control for the PC input? If there's nothing in the service menu I'm afraid the answer will be no.

But even if there is, which I doubt, I find it grating that UK owners would be technically invalidating their warranty to get access to what the European version offers out of the box.

[Phil Hinton]

Guys,
We will be feeding back what we have found to Panasonic directly and will see what they have to say about the differences regarding Menu controls.

[Jarod]

Great review and many thanks for the detailed information about the TV. I have one of these since friday in my living room and I can confirm, that there are several settings to change Gamma, colours and white balancing. I do not understand why these settings aren't available to UK customers. This seems pretty odd and I can see no reason...

Anyway I've got a question regarding the calibration:

Can you post the settings, values, for the calibrated display ? I think many users over here are very interested in correct settings to gain the best out of this really nice piece of hardware.

Greetings

Jarod aka Daniel

[Phil Hinton]

Originally Posted by Jarod

Great review and many thanks for the detailed information about the TV. I have one of these since friday in my living room and I can confirm, that there are several settings to change Gamma, colours and white balancing. I do not understand why these settings aren't available to UK customers. This seems pretty odd and I can see no reason...

Anyway I've got a question regarding the calibration:

Can you post the settings, values, for the calibrated display ? I think many users over here are very interested in correct settings to gain the best out of this really nice piece of hardware.

Greetings

Jarod aka Daniel

Daniel,

This is one thing that we will not do and for good reason. Any settings should be made in the environment the TV will be used in and with the sources you are using. We have a Tutorial video which will show you the basics of doing this for yourself for the main controls. For greyscale, this has to be done on a per set basis and varies between TV's even in the same batch of the same TV. I don't feel we would be acting in a professional manner by issuing settings that just will not work for anyone but us and the TV in our surroundings.
We can however recommend that with this TV you set it up in the Cinema mode and colour temp 'Warm' as this will get you in the ballpark towards getting accurate, it will improve video white and get you a nice detailed image, close to the correct colour temp of D65. Hope that helps.
There are also guides out there for setting greyscale using software and probes in the video calibration forum.

[Jarod]

Thank you Phil, actually I forgot the aspect of the surrounding environment during calibration

But I'll try your hint with the cinema mode and "warm" colours. Maybe I'll find someone for a calibration in the near future.
From my "little" experiences with the TV from friday I am really impressed of the HD-quality via Astra-Satellite. Today, I want to try out the difference between my old aged Marantz DV4300 DVD-player without progressive scan or any scaling feature and a SCART-connection and a Pioneer DV410V with HDMI-connection and 1080p-output.
If there are any other questions regarding the daily use, which should be the same except the colour management features, don't hesitate to ask

Jarod aka Daniel

[rewerb]

Originally Posted by mwardy

If it has memories per setting (normal, eco etc.) as usual then perhaps the PC input could be used to calibrate white balance for the other inputs. (Not that that bothers me, as above.) So the next q is, is there a gamma control for the PC input? If there's nothing in the service menu I'm afraid the answer will be no.

But even if there is, which I doubt, I find it grating that UK owners would be technically invalidating their warranty to get access to what the European version offers out of the box.

The UK manual says that white balance/gamma is adjustable for PC input (and it was last year too)

[mwardy]

Originally Posted by rewerb

The UK manual says that white balance/gamma is adjustable for PC input (and it was last year too)

Hey, cool! I'll have to have a fiddle and see if any changes there are carried over into the other inputs. You can hope.

[alsina]

Originally Posted by mwardy

Hey, cool! I'll have to have a fiddle and see if any changes there are carried over into the other inputs. You can hope.

They're not unfortunately.

[Pontiac]

David, could you please confirm if this new model (or any others in the new range for that fact) have the option to turn off dynamic dimming/ black level fluctuation/auto contrast. As I'm aware, of last years models only the PZ85 didn't exhibit this issue and that was only in the Cinema setting.

[mwardy]

Originally Posted by alsina

They're not unfortunately.

Oh well. Saved me faffing around for nothing though--thanks!

[jcatchpoole]

Great review, thanks, have also been eagerly awaiting to hear about these sets. I may be confused, but the review intro states "It leaves out features such as the Viera LINK Internet connectivity and THX Certification, which creep in on the higher-end models." However I've read, and the panasonic.com site confirms, that the G10s *do* include THX certification, as well as VieraCast (which is perhaps what you're referring to as "Viera LINK Internet connectivity" ?).

VIERA® G10 Series Plasma 1080p HDTVs from Panasonic

[Phil Hinton]

Originally Posted by jcatchpoole

Great review, thanks, have also been eagerly awaiting to hear about these sets. I may be confused, but the review intro states "It leaves out features such as the Viera LINK Internet connectivity and THX Certification, which creep in on the higher-end models." However I've read, and the panasonic.com site confirms, that the G10s *do* include THX certification, as well as VieraCast (which is perhaps what you're referring to as "Viera LINK Internet connectivity" ?).

VIERA® G10 Series Plasma 1080p HDTVs from Panasonic

That is the US model, they have had THX for a number of years now. The UK models do not have this or Vieracast

[jcatchpoole]

Originally Posted by Phil Hinton

That is the US model, they have had THX for a number of years now. The UK models do not have this or Vieracast

Oh, bummer, I see, thanks for the info. Do you know if the European models are also without THX/VieraCast ? Is 24p and a PC input the only difference between the UK/Euro S1s and the G10s then ?

[David Mackenzie]

Apparently though, the US equivalent model doesn't handle 24p correctly. And it almost certainly won't display 50hz video either... so don't feel like you're getting too raw a deal with the British version.

[Keith@MoleEnd]

Thank you David. I have a Panasonic TH-37PX70, (HD Ready 1024x720) linked to a Humax Freesat PVR and Pioneer DV-410V-K upscaling DVD player. I currently obtain good pq on Freeview (ITV excepted), even better when the Humax PVR upscales them, really good upscaled DVD images and excellent HD images via the Humax PVR.

I have decided in principle to upgrade. A) to a larger display panel B) to gear up for Blu-Ray. My priority is to obtain an excellent picture quality. I have no reservations that the TX-P42G10 will produce fantastic HD images but I am a little concerned about SD images. I am, at the moment, unable to view a set working. If I understand your review correctly you also have reservations on this issue but say they can be side stepped. Am I right in thinking the Humax PVR will fullfil this task? Thank you.

[David Mackenzie]

Originally Posted by Pontiac

David, could you please confirm if this new model (or any others in the new range for that fact) have the option to turn off dynamic dimming/ black level fluctuation/auto contrast. As I'm aware, of last years models only the PZ85 didn't exhibit this issue and that was only in the Cinema setting.

Sorry, missed this before. There's no option, but I didn't notice any fluctuation of the black level when I had the TV in Cinema mode.

I have decided in principle to upgrade. A) to a larger display panel B) to gear up for Blu-Ray. My priority is to obtain an excellent picture quality. I have no reservations that the TX-P42G10 will produce fantastic HD images but I am a little concerned about SD images. I am, at the moment, unable to view a set working. If I understand your review correctly you also have reservations on this issue but say they can be side stepped. Am I right in thinking the Humax PVR will fullfil this task? Thank you.

That's right - SD will always be SD, but the Humax PVR will bypass the TV's soft scaling.