[The News Bot]

Reviewed by Stephen Withers, 27th July 2010.
Overall the P65VT20 is an excellent display that is hampered by an unfortunate processing problem. The greyscale performance and colour accuracy are reference and the black levels are the best you will see on any consumer display currently available. As a 3D display the P65VT20 is also excellent with a very sharp, bright and detailed 3D image that is almost entirely free from crosstalk. In addition the performance with 24p and 60Hz 2D material is equally as impressive with a sharp and nicely rendered image. Unfortunately this is not the case with 50Hz material and since a great deal of people's viewing material will be in 50Hz this could be something of a problem.
Read the full review...

[Smurfin]

Great review but...

Finally, there has been a lot of debate on the forums regarding a problem with a video artefact where red, green and blue lines are apparent around certain moving objects, especially the centre line on football pitches during World Cup broadcasts. I also noticed this problem whilst watching the World Cup Final, as soon as the match started, and the camera panned across the pitch. Once you have noticed the problem it can be quite distracting, especially on a 65" display. The problem isn't restricted to World Cup broadcasts and I noticed it on all Freeview programming, whether it was standard or high definition. The problem also resulted in false contouring on areas that were the same such as peoples faces as they moved across the screen. However, I didn't notice this problem when watching 1080p24 Blu-rays or NTSC DVDs which made me curious. Plus this issue did not manifest itself in the review sample of the 50 inch VT20 that Phil covered a few months back.

So this standard warrants "recommended" status?

Glad I didn't order one now, but I'm even more gutted as it sounds like it's pretty close to the Kuros in black levels. For me to buy a panasonic panel they need to do the following imho:

1. Sort out fundamental motion issues/video artefacts
2. Sack their designers
3. Try clamping the head of the glasses designer for 2 hours and see how he likes it (I found them uncomfortable after a couple of minutes, and my wife found them unbearable after about 30 seconds!)

[Pugs1]

Probably due to the overall scores section.

[sirlukas]

Stephen thank you for great review!

It really does explain one thing for me which I believe is a common problem on 2010 Panasonic Plasma line-up.
I notice banding/posterization issues on my G20 and I think you nailed it right to the 50Hz signal issue.

My reaction to your review

[mhjo]

I have observed anomalies on 3 different Panasonic TV's this year. Now someone has put a name on them.

[iainl7]

I suppose it all depends on what you want to use the TV for. I'd be a lot more upset if the artifacts were on 24Hz material than 50Hz, for one.

[Steve Withers]

By awarding Recommended I was trying to reflect the overall performance of the display. As I mention in the review the P65VT20 has reference standard greyscale and colour accuracy as well as the best blacks on the market. It is also the best 3D display currently on the market and therefore effectively the reference for that too. It is also a very well specified and built TV with an excellent set of features. As far as 60Hz (US DVDs and PS3 games in my case) and 24p (most of my Blu-rays) material goes the image this display produces is superb, therefore there is only the issue of this minor artefact on 50Hz material. Since standard definition Freeview is so terrible anyway it really doesn't make any difference and the high definition Freeview image was still impressive despite the occasional artefact. Phil gave the P50VT20 a Highly Recommended but I dropped the P65VT20 down to Recommended because of the 50Hz artefact. Obviously as I mention at the end of the review, anyone considering spending four grand on a TV should give it a thorough demo first.

[Smurfin]

Originally Posted by Steve Withers

By awarding Recommended I was trying to reflect the overall performance of the display. As I mention in the review the P65VT20 has reference standard greyscale and colour accuracy as well as the best blacks on the market. It is also the best 3D display currently on the market and therefore effectively the reference for that too. It is also a very well specified and built TV with an excellent set of features. As far as 60Hz (US DVDs and PS3 games in my case) and 24p (most of my Blu-rays) material goes the image this display produces is superb, therefore there is only the issue of this minor artefact on 50Hz material. Since standard definition Freeview is so terrible anyway it really doesn't make any difference and the high definition Freeview image was still impressive despite the occasional artefact. Phil gave the P50VT20 a Highly Recommended but I dropped the P65VT20 down to Recommended because of the 50Hz artefact. Obviously as I mention at the end of the review, anyone considering spending four grand on a TV should give it a thorough demo first.

Thanks Steve

The only comment I'd make is that as a living room TV, they are generally used for freeview/Sky sd etc as well as for HD material. £4500 on a TV with problems in this area (especially football) - I can't see how that could possibly be recommended.

The fact is that just because it's the "best" set out there at the moment, doesn't warrant "recommended" with these problems. IMHO people should vote with their wallets. What's the incentive to fix these issues if Panasonic still sell loads?

Just IMHO, as I'm still lamenting the days not so long ago where a certain manufacturer knew how to make TVs, built them to high standards and sadly were priced out of the market by all the junk out there. What's even more concerning is that over the last 12 months the quality of TVs available to buy has gone backwards, and that doesn't bode well

[sirlukas]

What was the reason for that "manufacturer" to withdrew from market? I can not believe it was money.

[Smurfin]

Originally Posted by sirlukas

What was the reason for that "manufacturer" to withdrew from market? I can not believe it was money.

Of course it was.

[sirlukas]

In that case fingers crossed that Panasonic will make good use of "their" patented technology properly next year.

[mrsmr2]

Any chance you can do the "moving zone plate test" on a G20 to see if that suffers the same thing?

Thanks

[toodeep]

... and likewise to a 50V20 and 50VT20, of course.

[Stone Free]

Another Con is the TV's inability to transcode the 5.1 AAC from HD Freeview to Dolby Digital

[Matson]

Just curious is the black level abit deeper on the larger model since it got the reference mark compared to the 50 inch that just got excellent?

[mhjo]

Originally Posted by toodeep

... and likewise to a 50V20 and 50VT20, of course.

X20 too...

[zAndy1]

'It is also the best 3D display currently on the market and therefore effectively the reference for that too'

How can you say that when you haven't reviewed either of the Samsung plasmas?

[Steve Withers]

Hi Matson, I'm not saying the blacks are better than the 50", I'm just saying that I thought they were reference on the 65" that I reviewed and I guess Phil didn't when he reviewed the 50". As with any review process there is always a degree of subjectivity.

That's a fair point Andy, we haven't reviewed the Samsung 3D plasmas yet but of all the 3D displays that Phil and I have reviewed or seen at shows and demos we both think the VT20 is the best so far.

[zAndy1]

Well I hope when (if) you ever review the Samsung models you a) take into account the price b) make sure they're on the latest firmware and c) give them the benefit of the doubt cos it sounds to me like you've already decided they're gonna be inferior to the Panasonics. If they are significantly worse then fair enough, personally I doubt there'll be much in it when it comes to the 3D side of things and even if the blacks aren't as good on the Samsung for 2D viewing I doubt the difference will be very apparent when viewing 3D material when the effect of the glasses comes into it. Must say I'm a bit surprised the Samsungs haven't been reviewed yet, what's the reason exactly, Samsung got something to hide, Panasonic scared cos they're so much cheaper?

[Stuart Wright]

Andy I'm sure and certainly hope that we will be reviewing the Samsungs. When we do, they will get as fair a review as any other TV.

[panman40]

Please can we have the Moving Zone Plate Test on a 50" VT20, I assume this would show up the 'Motion' issues that were not apparent in the 50" review,
Thanks.

[Steve Withers]

Andy I have already reviewed the Samsung C8000, Phil is currently reviewing the C750 and as soon as we can get hold of one we'll also review a Samsung 3D plasma. I didn't say the Samsung plasmas would be inferior to the Panasonic plasmas, I just said the VT20 was the best 3D TV I had seen so far.

I can't comment on the 50Hz performance of other Panasonic plasmas and I'm afraid I don't have any others to test at the moment, unfortunately we have to give the TVs back after we've reviewed them.

[mikelj]

Originally Posted by Smurfin

Thanks Steve

The only comment I'd make is that as a living room TV, they are generally used for freeview/Sky sd etc as well as for HD material. £4500 on a TV with problems in this area (especially football) - I can't see how that could possibly be recommended.

The fact is that just because it's the "best" set out there at the moment, doesn't warrant "recommended" with these problems. IMHO people should vote with their wallets. What's the incentive to fix these issues if Panasonic still sell loads?

My gut reaction is that I completely agree with this view.

However, in all fairness, the 50Hz problem in Steve's opinion was minor; the review did cover the issue and recommend viewing before buying. At the end of the day, the judgement as to how much this issue affects the overall performance of the TV would appear to be very much down to the individual.

Saying that, there's no way I'd spend that sort on money on a TV that has a fundamental problem dealing with 50Hz material.

[ozzzy189]

Can't believe something that expensive has an inherrent flaw with something as important as 50 hz. Not good enough.

[Kinetic Frenzy]

Owning the 50" VT20 and hearing the same 50Hz issues exist for the 65" version but you get to pay twice as much to have them shown to you in even larger fashion doesn't sound like a recommendable product to me no matter how good it is in other areas.

If it can't deal properly with 50hz images i think it's fair to say that it's not fit for purpose as a PAL TV!

[toodeep]

All the more so that the TV fails a relatively objective test of difference in ability to handle 60 Hz and 50 Hz content.

[Jazz Monkey Jr]

I was set on this model after nearly buying a 58V10 around November. I have waited but as time has passed I have decide to wait until next years models and evenm thought about getting the Samsung. Panasonic need to sort out all the issues and bring the price down to around £3500 to get enthusiasts back in to the Panasonic brand. Even the pro panel was a let down this year. It is early days for 3D but a good start and hopefully next year there will be lots of competition and Panasonic will have some better designs on their set and remotes.

[golden phoenix]

enough time has passed since the original VT20 50" review to address the issues both these sets raise.

yet still there is no response, to me seems quite poor. i hope for people who have purchased or who are going to purchase this or the 50" , will get a firmware upgrade.

even if you knew, that the issues were going to be addressed down the line, it would be alot easier to swallow.

so come panasonic give AVforums and the buying public some responses and fixes..anyone at the forums know any different??

Thanks

[bonnermartin]

Thank you Steve Withers for an excellent review of the 65 inch Panasonic. I was going to purchase one of these sets but with the 50Hz problem I will delay it. The more people who write in who feel the same the quicker that Panasonic will do something about it.

I also believe that Panasonic need to take a good look at the design of their 3D glasses. I personally find Samsung 3D glasses more comfortable and less annoying.

There is no conversion of 2D to 3D. I appreciate that it is early days yet and that there is probably better designs to be developed. One only needs to look back at the design time to retrieve surround sound out of a stereo recording. 30 years plus from SQ & QS to Pro-logic II:

Bonner

[rchads89]

Nice review. Expensive but it looks like its pulling its weight, apart from normal panasonic plasma flaws.