Assists or not?

nick501 · 08-02-2009, 9:23 AM

Saw this somewhat interesting/controversial statment in the 'Want/dont' thread : 'Ability to turn off Assists for all in online lobbys.'

Thought it might be good to discuss the issue in a separate thread as it comes up from time to time in other threads.

Personally, i have no problem in using *any* assists necessary that increase my enjoyment or lessen my frustration with the game.

As a general rule in GT5P, i always use ABS, Active steering (on RWD drive cars) and the driving line although i use it only as a braking point guide.

If i am faster with TCS i will use it.

I read one of the Race Pro developers imply that many race cars in real life use TCS but no ABS is allowed - is this right?

TCS in GT5P feels very different to TCS in Forza2. The former seems to apply an obvious 'delay' when accelerating, obvously slowing you down exiting corners. Where as with the later, apart from a flashing TCS on screen, you hardly notice the effect (apart from not spinning out obviously

)

If you think 'assists are for girls' then say so here but please give an explanation for your opinion.

Also dont say 'i never use assists' if you use ABS

Mike Spence · 08-02-2009, 10:10 AM

All comments based on using a G25.

Active steering, didn't use this until you explained it to me Nick, I did some back to back laps and found myself to be quicker with it on the low setting, it also made the force feedback seem nicer.

ABS, not used it since I inverted the G25 pedals and modified the brake pedal to give it more resistance. I previously used the lowest setting.

TC, none or the lowest setting on the powerful RWD cars. I can do a couple of quick laps with it off but in a race with lots going on I find it 'safer' to have a little TC.

Driving line, I'd prefer it to be like the driving line in Race/GTR Evo, just a line of rubber on the circuit, I find the green/red line spoils the exceptional graphics of GT5p. I used it when I first got the game as it's useful for learning the circuits but you very soon find that the braking markers are very safe and the line doesn't always suit your driving style.

Auto gears, no.

IMO use what you want to make the game (sorry but that's what it is) enjoyable.

nick501 · 08-02-2009, 10:44 AM

From time to time i have a go with no ABS. Like you say, it's deffo possible to get the hang of with the G25 pedals.

When i had a brief phase of playing GTR2 on PC a few months ago i found that there wasnt much difference if you switched ABS off. But IMHO Forza 2 is nigh-on impossible to get used to with no ABS, and frankly not worth the effort.

Going to try no ABS when Race Pro arrives on the xbox 360 although it may be a completely different ball game as i will have to use the pad.

GMC79 · 08-02-2009, 11:29 AM

That was my comment in the want thread.
I only want this as this is how i race in Forza 2, I didnt really mean turn em all off all of the time. The Majority of the time i set my own games and 'usually' only want to race with people who at a minimum dont use STM and TCS. So really hope they have all these options in GT5, If the game dont have these options in lobbys then most propbably wont be online as much.
Fantasic on Forza 2 when all is off, the No ABS is outstanding, Hmm not tried that in in GT5P.

nick501 · 08-02-2009, 11:48 AM

Without wanting to sound contentious

, i cant understand why anyone would want to prevent a fellow racer from being competitive by forcing certain Assists off.

I'm sure what we all want is fair but competitive races online with no 'spoilers'

I am genuinely interested why you feel (GMC79) the need to force some assists off. Is it to level the playing field or to try to attract a certian type of harder-core racer to your lobbies?

GMC79 · 08-02-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick501

I am genuinely interested why you feel (GMC79) the need to force some assists off. Is it to level the playing field or to try to attract a certian type of harder-core racer to your lobbies?

In a way yes, people join and leave if they see certain assists are off ( and cant handle it

usually the case or they'd stay ) and thats fair enuf, Id just rather have it the way i like it. And spose that goes for everyone, certainly dont care if others use it just like to enjoy it the way i like it. And if people join my games they gonna have to live with it.
Never used stability or traction control Since day one of GT or in any other sim so that's just the way i play as i dont need it. Id rather enjoy it to the max for me rather than 'perhaps' be a tad faster at times, And i would be in GT but rather leave em off for my fun. Just good to have them options, cos not to have them is rather poor. imo.
Each to our own i guess.

nick501 · 08-02-2009, 12:14 PM

I have got caught out a few times in forza 2 when i entered lobbies which had ABS 'off', bit embarassing really

GMC79 · 08-02-2009, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick501

I have got caught out a few times in forza 2 when i entered lobbies which had ABS 'off', bit embarassing really

lol, yeah me too ive had that happen or ive still had it off from career and forgot to put it on. First corner blues.

but rewarding.

Thing is im actually quick regardless so it dont bother me. On a few occasions im the highest in a career leaderbaord race (forza 2) with no TCS

Thing is it's obvious when u select a car if things are off so not much excuse.

Glad that didnt cause arguments, cos after posting it in want thread knew there'd be a comment or two.
As long as everyone enjoys it for themselves then that's all that matters.

nick501 · 08-02-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMC79

Glad that didnt cause arguments, cos after posting it in want thread knew there'd be a comment or two.

Thats what forums are for. I'm glad you brought it up.

Debate =

Arguing =

Of course anyone is free set up in game options as they prefer (as host), but i dont agree that these preferences should be forced on other players.

Guess i'll be setting up my own lobbies then........

GMC79 · 08-02-2009, 12:52 PM

just read ur above post on the ABS matter, thing is if u adjust the Balance and power of the brake u can easily get the hang of it. Even default u just have to use 50% trigger travel to get max braking force, but yeah not easy.
Just a general setting but try 54% Front balance and 58% pressure (instead of 100%)
Certainly not Nigh on impossible as u put it. The feel with all assists off/locking up is absolutly superb.imo.
Going to try no abs on GT later to see if it's anygood.

chowyunfatt · 08-02-2009, 2:40 PM

Don't mind people using assists so they can make the game play to suit their style, What I would want to do in lobby's is separate real differences like standard or pro physics, the rest are just tweaks that don't rally give somebody a advantage, if they did all the top TT times on the leader boards would have assists on but the all have everything off.

GMC79 · 08-02-2009, 4:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chowyunfatt

Don't mind people using assists so they can make the game play to suit their style, What I would want to do in lobby's is separate real differences like standard or pro physics, the rest are just tweaks that don't rally give somebody a advantage, if they did all the top TT times on the leader boards would have assists on but the all have everything off.

Yeah good point actually but that would hopefully be just another in the options to change in lobby for host. Standard is ridiculous and is like a huge TCS system/aracde mode. Can hardly get a car to slide under full power out of a corner.

Without question that needs to be an option in game settings for races, and think it will be as even now leaderboards are seperate for Norm/pro.

Mike Spence · 08-02-2009, 5:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMC79

Standard is ridiculous and is like a huge TCS system/aracde mode. Can hardly get a car to slide under full power out of a corner.

Why are you confused? It has its place, not all players of GT have the skill to control the car without any of the assists. Give the controller to a youngster and see the fun they have with all the assists on, switch all the assists off and they can't even stay on the circuit.

And IME all the cars are quicker (with a good driver) with all the assists off rather than on.

GMC79 · 08-02-2009, 6:10 PM

Yeah i realise thats what it's for but for me it's just a big waste of time putting it in. Yeah fair enuf it'll suit the younger players well for it's easyness, and it's still good fun to race in standard mode. But for me it would have been better to have pro mode as normal (and only mode) and let players use assists if need be.
But yeah spose they catered for all well in that respect.

mickey · 08-02-2009, 7:18 PM

i think assists are a nono, i feel it does level the playing field as much as possible by not using them. As said above by m spence "And IME all the cars are quicker (with a good driver) with all the assists off rather than on" . if everyone agreed I would turn off abs as well and learn to drive without it. I might be a slower driver for doing so, but i would still try my best rather than have a cpu do it for me.jmo. Mike

CAS FAN · 10-02-2009, 11:04 PM

I only ever use ABS on the lowest setting before turning it off completely. Even my Renault Laguna has ABS though

. I never use TCS, driving line, auto gears etc. though. I do use some mild active steering though as the physics feel more realistic with some on.

nick501 · 10-02-2009, 11:11 PM

CAS if you were hosting a race, would you force the assists off if you could?

CAS FAN · 10-02-2009, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick501

CAS if you were hosting a race, would you force the assists off if you could?

Nope I wouldn't to be honest. The most important thing for me with a racing game is good, close, fun racing and if some folk are not comfortable racing without assists then it makes little sense to force their use IMO.

Generally I feel that a skillful racer will be quicker without assists than with anyway.

Ambient Fish · 11-02-2009, 12:01 AM

I always use ABS (1) and active steering (Mild) and Manual gears I don't use TCS as it slows you down in corners. I don't agree to forcing everybody to race with no assists as I feel that you have to allow individual racers to set their car up to suit themselves and allow them to get the most out of the experience.