[Snatch]

So i read a couple of months back that the Malaysian Government are to implement a new law (primarliy because of this global slowdown)..

This would mean that if any company based in Malaysia were to make their staff redundant, it would be the non-nationals to lose their jobs first..
I think there are ceratin exceptions to this with doctors etc..

Does anyone know if this has come into force?
Also would something like this work here? Could someone coming from the EU be considered a foreign national?

[nheather]

Also would something like this work here?

Unlikely. UK governments tend to 'do the proper thing', 'play with a straight bat' and all that, and are so PC I doubt anyone would have the balls to implement it.

Even if they did, knowing UK governments it would be to be implement in 2015, with a 5 year amnesty, a 5 year appeal period and applied in 2025.

Could someone coming from the EU be considered a foreign national?

Definitely not unfortunately.

Cheers,

Nigel

[johntheexpat]

From the on-line New York Times

France is restricting visas for workers from outside the European Union in the face of rising unemployment, according to a policy directive by President Nicolas Sarkozy that was released Tuesday. “The absolute priority must be for people in France who are deprived of work to get back into jobs,” he said. The unemployment rate among foreigners from non-European Union countries living in France was 22 percent, he said, compared with 8 percent for the whole population.

[dejongj]

Originally Posted by nheather

Unlikely. UK governments tend to 'do the proper thing', 'play with a straight bat' and all that, and are so PC I doubt anyone would have the balls to implement it.

Even if they did, knowing UK governments it would be to be implement in 2015, with a 5 year amnesty, a 5 year appeal period and applied in 2025.



Definitely not unfortunately.

Cheers,

Nigel

Thanks No, us EU nationals are not Foreign Nationals in those terms. What a dumb ignorant statement to make....What's next London jobs for Londoners? Birmingham houses only for Brommies? Come on....

The one thing that could be learned from the depression in the previous century is that countries should not react like that as it will prolong the situation. International trade and associated skills as essential to get out of it.....

[dazza74]

Seems fair enough you look after your own at the end of the day but it won't happen. We started with foreign nationals in the 60's because the youth at the time in this land of ours didn't want to do the more meanel work available and I don't think a lot of this has changed. Okay I don't think the polish builders coming over did people in that trade a lot of favours but then given the downturn currently in the property market I got the impression of lot of them were going home anyway.

The only way to improve this country is to shut up shop, stop importing so much cheap foreign goods and start manufacturing the stuff ourselves again. We should be trying to move away from this wasteful throwaway existance we are living in anyway because of the environment alone. Shouldn't have jeans for £3 a pair in a supermarket, it's plain wrong and doesn't encourage anyone to look after anything when it's so cheap to replace it.

[Jenn]

The problem I can see with such a policy is that companies would be forced to fire people who may be more valueable to the company or more competent than some people born in the country, thus not helping the company.

That and the fact that I'm not UK born and it'd **** me off no end if as an employee I was fired purely based on where I came from regardless of how long I've lived here and how much tax I've paid etc.

[CJPowers81]

Originally Posted by cheekyboy_123

This would mean that if any company based in Malaysia were to make their staff redundant, it would be the non-nationals to lose their jobs first..

So they should. It should be the same in the UK. It should be that way in every country.

[pandemic]

My mothers a non-UK national but has worked here 25 years paid all her taxes, is far more productive than most where she works. According to this she should lose her job before the others. Something seems wrong. Certainly doesn't make business sense.

[dazza74]

I think very few people in this country are cold enough to be happy to remove people who've established roots in this country and actively contribute to society. I just think moving further down the line we are sitting on a very tiny island here with 60 million people crammed into it. I reckon we should have a chat to the Australians and see if they fancy building up their economy a bit more and start looking at moving some of us over there a bit more easily. Maybe bring in the 10 pound travel to Australia shceme, I'd be tempted to go as I can't stand the rubbish weather in this country and the general cost of living.

[smallclanger]

Sounds like a ridiculous law to me, what if the non nationals held key jobs but you had plenty of nationals who were far less skilled? The business should be able to decide based on the usual factors, which positions can be cut/merged, length of service etc

[dazza74]

Maybe the Malaysians are really looking to target the short term workers those that come over to stay for six month's or a year a temporary change of scenery sort or worker. Like a lot of Aussies and Kiwi's who come here and we do the same here going the other way.

[domtheone]

Originally Posted by dazza74

I think very few people in this country are cold enough to be happy to remove people who've established roots in this country and actively contribute to society. I just think moving further down the line we are sitting on a very tiny island here with 60 million people crammed into it. I reckon we should have a chat to the Australians and see if they fancy building up their economy a bit more and start looking at moving some of us over there a bit more easily. Maybe bring in the 10 pound travel to Australia shceme, I'd be tempted to go as I can't stand the rubbish weather in this country and the general cost of living.

If they made it easy to go and encouraged it, i'd pay for the flight myself

Alas, it seems that getting into Aus is as hard as nails

It does me right off though that the government refuse to acknowledge that there is (and will be) a problem with the rapidly increasing populous and our lmited resources/space etc etc.

Sorry for going OT.

[nheather]

Thanks No, us EU nationals are not Foreign Nationals in those terms. What a dumb ignorant statement to make....What's next London jobs for Londoners? Birmingham houses only for Brommies? Come on....

Sorry, didn't mean to offend. My comment was off topic and wasn't aimed at non-UK workers. I don't mind having non-UK workers (EU or not) provided they are nett contibuting to the economy.

My 'guised' comment was aimed at EU immigrants who come to the UK to live off the state either because they are not working or because they are receiving greater benefits than their contributions. And there is nothing that can be done about it because the UK benefit rules are too lax.

Cheers,

Nigel

[Jenn]

Originally Posted by dazza74

The only way to improve this country is to shut up shop, stop importing so much cheap foreign goods and start manufacturing the stuff ourselves again.

I suspect people would be up in arms if it went that way because prices would rocket: nobody would agree to be paid low wages and it would make a huge difference to prices while our wages wouldn't go up.

Just look at all the moaning on the forums about rip off britain. This would be on a different scale altogether.

[HotblackDesiato]

Happening in the US to a limited extent, in that companies receiving government bailouts through TARP now have additional hurdles to get foreign national visas. To add to that when unemployment is high it naturally becomes harder to get through Labor Certification, should you want to get a visa, or to then get a green card. As an expat i've heard that visa holders are being targeted when laid offs occur, but haven't seen any real evidence to support it, but the sentiment is there Stock News & Tips: MICROSOFT CORP : LAYOFF 5000 - TARGET H1B VISA HOLDERS

[dejongj]

Originally Posted by nheather

Sorry, didn't mean to offend. My comment was off topic and wasn't aimed at non-UK workers. I don't mind having non-UK workers (EU or not) provided they are nett contibuting to the economy.

My 'guised' comment was aimed at EU immigrants who come to the UK to live off the state either because they are not working or because they are receiving greater benefits than their contributions. And there is nothing that can be done about it because the UK benefit rules are too lax.

Cheers,

Nigel

Apology accepted...It is quite hurting though especially when you are a tax payer (In excess of 6 figures in tax alone!), employ people and are active in the community for essential functions (like governing schools) which in my opinion the central government should be looking after...

Anyway don't fall in the popular press trap of believing that this country is flooded with EU immigrants who get 'our' benefits...The system really doesn't work like that at all...The papers would like you to believe that and are very crafty at choosing their words....Anyway that is my opinion, saying any more would endanger a breach of osa...

[JagoPlasma]

stupid law. first rule of capitalism, money comes first.

if you can pay your family member £5p/h to do a job, or a polish person £3p/h to do the same job, you tell your family to **** off and hire the cheaper guy

[Sonic67]

Originally Posted by dazza74

Shouldn't have jeans for £3 a pair in a supermarket, it's plain wrong and doesn't encourage anyone to look after anything when it's so cheap to replace it.

If the jeans increased to £40 I think Asda would just pocket the difference. It wouldn't necessarily mean any more money for those who made them.

[hutch]

Originally Posted by CJPowers81

So they should. It should be the same in the UK. It should be that way in every country.

Im working in Australia and have been for the past 15 months, I was brought over here because my skills and my work ethic stand me head and shoulders over people from the local workforce.

Should I be laid off before them because im not Australian despite the fact I work my ass off while the majority of them daydream about going to the beach or the pub

Dont talk stupid, companies will lay off the people who they think are least suited to the roles available otherwise how do they survive

[JagoPlasma]

Originally Posted by hutch

Dont talk stupid, companies will lay off the people who they think are least suited to the roles available otherwise how do they survive

you've never worked in the public sector

but i fully agree

[riprse]

That's right give the money to the polish guy so he can send it home to his family not the English guy that will spend it here. Stupid

[Jenn]

Originally Posted by riprse

That's right give the money to the polish guy so he can send it home to his family not the English guy that will spend it here. Stupid

I'm sorry, but the money I earn is being spent (or saved) here after a big big portion goes away in tax to pay for all sorts of things that benefit british people.

If you think sending immigrants back to their countries will create more jobs, just wait until all the british emigrants are sent back here.

[quarry2006]

Originally Posted by dejongj

Apology accepted...It is quite hurting though especially when you are a tax payer (In excess of 6 figures in tax alone!), employ people and are active in the community for essential functions (like governing schools) which in my opinion the central government should be looking after...

Anyway don't fall in the popular press trap of believing that this country is flooded with EU immigrants who get 'our' benefits...The system really doesn't work like that at all...The papers would like you to believe that and are very crafty at choosing their words....Anyway that is my opinion, saying any more would endanger a breach of osa...

As you know, you're spot on about how the system works. Far too many people should do their homework before shooting off at the mouth about how supposedly easy it is for an immigrant to claim state benefits in this country. But my own personal feeling is they actually don't want to do that, that they prefer to think that the system works that way so they can bolster their odious views with it. And then they whinge when you accuse them of racism.

[quarry2006]

Originally Posted by riprse

That's right give the money to the polish guy so he can send it home to his family not the English guy that will spend it here. Stupid

So, if you worked abroad would you not send money back home to your family, then?

[quarry2006]

Originally Posted by Jenn

I'm sorry, but the money I earn is being spent (or saved) here after a big big portion goes away in tax to pay for all sorts of things that benefit british people.

If you think sending immigrants back to their countries will create more jobs, just wait until all the british emigrants are sent back here.

I had a conversation in work not too long ago with someone who was bemoaning immigrants who come into Britain to live off the state - same old same old that we've heard too many times before. When I pointed out to him that across the way we have a cenotaph for our glorious dead which was currently being used as a place for the local junkies to hang out, people who clearly had no intention of ever contributing to the country from which they were sponging, and then asked him if he was happy to support them his answer summed up the mentality of these racist buffoons: "They were born here, so yes I do." What a plant pot.

[riprse]

I won't beat about the bush here I don't care about the polish guy if I'm going to give my money to someone it will be to the one who will be putting it back into Britain not the one who will take it all back to his own country.

[Jenn]

Originally Posted by riprse

I won't beat about the bush here I don't care about the polish guy if I'm going to give my money to someone it will be to the one who will be putting it back into Britain not the one who will take it all back to his own country.

That's great, I assume you drive an old Rover, and that your clothes and all the stuff you own was made in Britain?

Yeah didn't think so... Happy to pay less or get better quality when it suits you.

[riprse]

No I drive a new land rover.

[quarry2006]

Originally Posted by riprse

I won't beat about the bush here I don't care about the polish guy if I'm going to give my money to someone it will be to the one who will be putting it back into Britain not the one who will take it all back to his own country.

Answer the question if you please.

[riprse]

Look I'm happy to pay my money to the guy that's living & intends to stay in this country but I won't give my to those that have just come over here to under cut the British worker then clear off back to their own country when the work drys up. It's as simple as that I've no problem with what race a person is .