[Synchronicity]

A report published yesterday suggests that legalisation of drugs in the UK could save our government £14 billion. In adition to that, the government could also earn over £1 billion a year from tax on the newly legalised drugs
Legalisation of drugs could save UK £14bn, says study | Society | The Guardian

Ah well, it is not like the government is in dire need of money or anything, and after all, the current system is working brilliantly so I doubt things will change anytime soon

[Mr Noble]

Originally Posted by Mr Jason B

A report published yesterday suggests that legalisation of drugs in the UK could save our government £14 billion. In adition to that, the government could also earn over £1 billion a year from tax on the newly legalised drugs
Legalisation of drugs could save UK £14bn, says study | Society | The Guardian

Ah well, it is not like the government is in dire need of money or anything, and after all, the current system is working brilliantly so I doubt things will change anytime soon

If drugs were legalised then the country would come to a standstill, quite literally people would stand in the street's licking lamposts and what not

Plus the government would lose out more in tax as certain people would prefer to stay at home and not work just to get high everyday

[Synchronicity]

Originally Posted by H3AD_SH0TZ

Plus the government would lose out more in tax as certain people would prefer to stay at home and not work just to get high everyday

lol,absolute rubbish - the people that want to do that are already doing it! Do you think the fact that drugs are ilegal make any difference?

[Noggin1980]

I'd like to see both drugs and prostituation leagalised, regulated and taxed, there are downsides to legalisation but imo (and now backed up by this study) the upsides far far outweigh them.

[NewMan]

Originally Posted by Mr Jason B

Ah well, it is not like the government is in dire need of money or anything, and after all, the current system is working brilliantly so I doubt things will change anytime soon

Naaah, they've got cash flow sorted when they announce some new "green" taxes in the budget this month (I swear, people are going to be fitted with CO2 monitors over their mouths, and taxed on volume if this lot have their way - of course, MPs will be able to claim it as an expense!).

Besides, there's a definite "drugs are bad, mkay" attitude that will never be overcome.

[Mr Noble]

Originally Posted by Mr Jason B

lol,absolute rubbish - the people that want to do that are already doing it! Do you think the fact that drugs are ilegal make any difference?

Yes

[Noggin1980]

That report shows that even if twice as many people start taking drugs after legalisation the country would still be nearly £5 billion a year better off and thats before any taxes are taken into account. Thats likely to be a few billion a year even with light taxation.

The benefits are many most obviously in the crime area, it would free up masses of police and court time allowing them to focus on more important things as well as freeing up the prisons too allow us to keep the more serious offenders in for longer. Gang violence and crime would drop dramatically.

There is no perfect solution when people want to take things that are bad for them and occasionally fatal but legalisation is the best option availible. Do people honestly think that canabis causes more problems than alcohol?

[Synchronicity]

Originally Posted by H3AD_SH0TZ

Yes

Drugs are illegal , not unavailable. The sort of person you are referring to can get drugs whenever they want, and are already staying at home all day to get high, and they will not change. What will change, are those people will no longer have to commit crime to fund their habit.

Also the people that currently choose to do drugs, whilst holding down a steady job and living a normal life(trust me, theres lots out there) will no longer be classed as criminals, will not have to assosciate themselves with criminals when purchasing the drugs and will actually be contributing to society through the tax the pay on each purchase.

What a crazy idea eh?

[Sonic67]

Why not legalise the occassional bit of speeding, copyright theft and everything else? We all do that don't we? This would free up the courts etc etc.

Seriously. If legalising drugs is such a good idea why hasn't it caught on worldwide?

[gtcarling]

Sort out MP`s expenses that would save a few quid.

[Sonic67]

Originally Posted by Mr Jason B

Drugs are illegal , not unavailable. The sort of person you are referring to can get drugs whenever they want, and are already staying at home all day to get high, and they will not change. What will change, are those people will no longer have to commit crime to fund their habit.

Yes they will. Plenty of people commit crime to fund drinking and gambling habits. They are legal. Anyone who wants something badly enough will get it. If they lose their job because of their habit, whether it's gambling, drinking, drugs or anything else they will turn to crime to fund it.

[Synchronicity]

Originally Posted by Sonic67

Yes they will. Plenty of people commit crime to fund drinking and gambling habits. They are legal. Anyone who wants something badly enough will get it. If they lose their job because of their habit, whether it's gambling, drinking, drugs or anything else they will turn to crime to fund it.

The point it is it was legailsed, it would be quality controlled and not overpriced as it currently is on the black market, so smackheads would not have to go out thieving and commiting burglaries to fund their 500 quid a week habit. This is just not my opinion but the views of experts in the field.

[Squiffy]

Originally Posted by Sonic67

Seriously. If legalising drugs is such a good idea why hasn't it caught on worldwide?

The victorians seemed to do OK despite widespread availability of opium, laudanum, etc.

I think I'd have to turn your argument on its head. Despite drugs being illegal pretty much worldwide, it is still a huge trade. If making drugs illegal was such a good idea, why has the policy failed?

[loz]

I understood that statistics showed that drug usage increases with prohibition.

Mainly because prohibition creates a financial incentive for criminals to create demand, and create dependency through pushers.

Remove that financial incentive, you remove the criminals and pushers, and demand falls.

[Steven]

Originally Posted by Sonic67

Why not legalise the occassional bit of... copyright theft

Copyright infringement is not theft, and I would also suggest you are missing the point of intellectual property law to be casually ignoring the past 300 years

[nheather]

The report seems to be basing the saving on the removal of policing etc. The trouble is, it fails to consider increased costs elsewhere - the health service for example.

I agree that legalised or not the hardened users will continue to take drugs. The problem is that if legallised the number of people taking drugs will increase and the number of helth problems and accidents would also increase.

Alcohol and smoking related accidents and illness is a massive burden on the health service.

So I fear that whilst savings might be made in one department, increases would be occur elsewhere to offset them.

Cheers,

Nigel

[Sonic67]

Originally Posted by Mr Jason B

The point it is it was legailsed, it would be quality controlled and not overpriced as it currently is on the black market, so smackheads would not have to go out thieving and commiting burglaries to fund their 500 quid a week habit. This is just not my opinion but the views of experts in the field.

Alcohol and gambling is quality controlled. Those addicted to them still have trouble holding down jobs and turn to crime if necessary to continue. An addiction is an addiction. There a plenty of people who have a quiet drink and just have a flutter on the National once a year. They aren't the problem. You make drugs easy to get hold of, fashionable, legal, whatever you will increase the amount of people using them and some will be fine. You will also get more addicts so don't pretend that crime won't be a problem by legalising it. It won't go away.

[oakie]

YouTube - Just say no

[Sonic67]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

Copyright infringement is not theft, and I would also suggest you are missing the point of intellectual property law to be casually ignoring the past 300 years

All those ads that said you wouldn't steal a car etc, certainly portrayed it as theft by the comparison.

[Steven]

Originally Posted by Sonic67

All those ads that said you wouldn't steal a car etc, certainly portrayed it as theft by the comparison.

I don't want to get too much into it as if you were to care to read into the conceptual ideas behind intellectual property rights, or copyright in particular, then you would understand my post. But I would say that your sentiment if enacted would in one fell swoop would on a par with anybody you could care to name in damaging the economy, science, technology, industry and business

[Iccz]

Originally Posted by Sonic67

All those ads that said you wouldn't steal a car etc, certainly portrayed it as theft by the comparison.

I'd happily download a car if I could

[Noggin1980]

Originally Posted by Sonic67

Alcohol and gambling is quality controlled. Those addicted to them still have trouble holding down jobs and turn to crime if necessary to continue. An addiction is an addiction. There a plenty of people who have a quiet drink and just have a flutter on the National once a year. They aren't the problem. You make drugs easy to get hold of, fashionable, legal, whatever you will increase the amount of people using them and some will be fine. You will also get more addicts so don't pretend that crime won't be a problem by legalising it. It won't go away.

drugs already are easy to get hold off, being illegal increases how fasionable they are not decreases it.

I think its likely there would be some increase but this is the only downside the ammount of upsides are huge.

It would dramatically cut the drug crime, it wouldn't go away I agree with you, there will still be people who are willing to steal to fund their habit.

I think most of the turf war and gang crime would go away with drugs being legal.

[Noggin1980]

Originally Posted by Sonic67

All those ads that said you wouldn't steal a car etc, certainly portrayed it as theft by the comparison.

and those adds are idiotic, complete and utter nonsence.

[Sonic67]

Originally Posted by Squiffy

The victorians seemed to do OK despite widespread availability of opium, laudanum, etc.

Did they? Ever seen the painting of gin lane? I think the masses probably only had access to alcohol. Opium etc was more of a gentlemens thing. Anyway a lot of things were done in Victorian times. I don't think we can use that as a guide today. They also had 'Victorian values'. Want to see them return?

Originally Posted by Squiffy

I think I'd have to turn your argument on its head. Despite drugs being illegal pretty much worldwide, it is still a huge trade. If making drugs illegal was such a good idea, why has the policy failed?

The argument doesn't work. Lots of crime is huge and worldwide. How about the arms trade? Despite banning arms criminals still get them. Should we accept that the gun controls failed and then sell guns in shops? Victorians often had a service revolver. Holmes had the drugs, Watson the revolver. Why not? Legalise the arms and it will save lots of money and you wouldn't need all those police officers. You see a bad guy have a shoot out. Who needs the police right?

[Noggin1980]

Originally Posted by nheather

The report seems to be basing the saving on the removal of policing etc. The trouble is, it fails to consider increased costs elsewhere - the health service for example.

I agree that legalised or not the hardened users will continue to take drugs. The problem is that if legallised the number of people taking drugs will increase and the number of helth problems and accidents would also increase.

Alcohol and smoking related accidents and illness is a massive burden on the health service.

So I fear that whilst savings might be made in one department, increases would be occur elsewhere to offset them.

Cheers,

Nigel

Thats not true, the report takes into account increased costs. It was also generous in assuming that each drug user under the new system would have the same drain on health service resources as drug user in the old system, it rightly says though doesn't take it into account that many of the health related problems from drug use would go away, things like problems from dirty needles, huge variations in the strength of the drug that can lead to overdoses, drugs 'padded' out with all sort of dangerous substances, all of these problems would be substantially reduced.

[Ed Selley]

Originally Posted by nheather

The report seems to be basing the saving on the removal of policing etc. The trouble is, it fails to consider increased costs elsewhere - the health service for example.

The health service already has to pay for emergency treatment, rehab programs and any number of other incidental costs. If drugs were being taken that had accepted quantities and measurements- to say nothing of being free of unexpected ingredients such as rat poison, the ability to treat people would be more efficient than it is currently. And there would be revenue coming in to pay for it.

Originally Posted by nheather

I agree that legalised or not the hardened users will continue to take drugs. The problem is that if legallised the number of people taking drugs will increase and the number of helth problems and accidents would also increase.

I'm not sure exactly what would happen. I do know that a goodly quantity of my friends and aquantances- prosperous and well educated people in some good jobs- are frequently a little "high on life" come a weekend and I am sure I am not alone. That's a lot of potential revenue unearned. My friends would be safer as well.

Originally Posted by nheather

Alcohol and smoking related accidents and illness is a massive burden on the health service.

So I fear that whilst savings might be made in one department, increases would be occur elsewhere to offset them.

Cheers,

Nigel

I honestly believe that at the moment, people die, the NHS needs to treat, the police need to chase and the prisons hold, people that could be contributing instead.

[Noggin1980]

I doubt any of us have read the report properly but I've skimmed through it and it has lots of interesting bits of information.

£450 (cost at source) of heroin is worth £75,750 on the streets of the UK.
£325 of cocaine is worth £51,659

Those figures alone should show how much less crime would need to be commited to fund a drug addition under a legal system. If the drugs wern't taxed and sold at cost a £500 a week heroin addiction would cost less than £3. (this is my commentry on the numbers in the report, the report doesnt state that)

The lancet (worlds leading medical journal)'s report in 2007 concluded of the top 20 drugs alcohol was the 5th most harmful and tobacco 9th meaning these legal drugs are more dangerous than cannabis, ecstasy and LSD. They concluded that “the exclusion of alcohol and tobacco from the Misuse of Drugs Act is, from a scientific perspective, arbitrary”

[Synchronicity]

Originally Posted by Noggin1980

£450 (cost at source) of heroin is worth £75,750 on the streets of the UK.
£325 of cocaine is worth £51,659

Those figures alone should show how much less crime would need to be commited to fund a drug addition under a legal system. If the drugs wern't taxed and sold at cost a £500 a week heroin addiction would cost less than £3. (this is my commentry on the numbers in the report, the report doesnt state that)

Wow, those figures are shocking! The government could tax the **** out of drugs and they would still cost a tiny fraction of what they are now.

A lot of people who object to legalisation/decriminalisation usually reel off inaccurate reasons to back up their arguement. If only everyone looked into the subject a little and got past the the rubbish spouted by the media, they would see how ridiculous the arguement against legalisation is.

Portugal decriminalised drugs several years ago and their policy has been extremley succesful - drug use and crime associated with druge use has gone down there since the policy was introduced. An interesting article on it here:
The Raw Story | Portugal's drug decriminalization 'bizarrely underappreciated': Greenwald

I think the UK of late is like the USA's snivelling little brother and our government will not do anything without getting the nod of approval from big bro first, so until the US starts to see sense we will have to let countries like Portugal show people how it is done.

[Decadence]

By legalising it you might save money but it sends the message that drug use and abuse is socially acceptable...it isn't.

[Synchronicity]

Originally Posted by Decadence

By legalising it you might save money but it sends the message that drug use and abuse is socially acceptable...it isn't.

Abuse of anything is bad, nobody is condoning that. By legalising drugs they would be saving huge amounts of money and also generating brand new revenue from the taxation. A fraction of this money, ie millions could then be used to educate and treat people.

If prohibition was working we would not be having this discussion - it isn't, it never has and never will. Surely a solution which saves our government billions, reduces crime and allows police to spend more time and effort solving other crimes should be looked at seriously.