[dazza74]

Thought I'd start a thread, not sure whether anyone caught the channel 4 documentary last night "The Hospital". I can honestly say I don't think I've seen a program more hard hitting than that in a long time, I just hope enough people who go out and get drunk like that sit up and take notice of the potential consequences although I don't think they will.

Be interested to know others views on the subject. The most damning thing for me was when the nurse said it wasn't like that on a Friday & Saturday in a hospital 20 years ago, I just know somethings got to be done.

[oldnewbie]

Completely agree with you, What I cant really understand is the mind set of these youngsters especially the young lass who got knocked down and her heart stopped a couple of times and still she found it amusing and was looking forward to the next time she goes out and gets legless Overall it was not really a shock to me as my son in law is a paramedic and the cases he tells me about are even worse Sad as it may sound but I think a lot of my generation and younger have completely stuffed up the moral upbringing of there children by not teaching them respect for themselves or other people

[Greg]

Did they say what the cost to the NHS was of treating the youngsters who have too much too drink?

If so, perhaps they should be charged?

[dazza74]

Originally Posted by Greg

Did they say what the cost to the NHS was of treating the youngsters who have too much too drink?

If so, perhaps they should be charged?

Can't quite remember exactly but they said something like 30-50% of the cases in A&E on those nights were drink related. I think the trouble is with charging it's determining who's to blame, I would certainly consider charging those who've basically drunk to much and had to have their stomach pumped but some of the cases where people who were drunk but had come in due to being stabbed or as the above post mentioned a girl who'd basically been run over.

[dazza74]

Originally Posted by oldnewbie

Completely agree with you, What I cant really understand is the mind set of these youngsters especially the young lass who got knocked down and her heart stopped a couple of times and still she found it amusing and was looking forward to the next time she goes out and gets legless Overall it was not really a shock to me as my son in law is a paramedic and the cases he tells me about are even worse Sad as it may sound but I think a lot of my generation and younger have completely stuffed up the moral upbringing of there children by not teaching them respect for themselves or other people

That girl it's almost as if she had a death wish, life didn't really seem to mean much to her. Pretty sure they said she even had two kids

[oldnewbie]

Originally Posted by dazza74

That girl it's almost as if she had a death wish, life didn't really seem to mean much to her. Pretty sure they said she even had two kids

Yes they did say she had two kids, It seems to be all about the now generation, They just live for now and now is all that matters, They don't plan for the future nor do they have any aspirations. Really sad

[Decadence]

Alcohol related admissions to hospital should carry a charge to the person affected.

[robfosters]

Originally Posted by Decadence

Alcohol related admissions to hospital should carry a charge to the person affected.

Do you mean just A+E or in general?

Charging someone for say, cirrhosis of the liver would be totally wrong. It's like charging people for lung cancer.

"Yeah, you're dying, but it's your own fault, so all the money you have will be taken by us for your treatment and not left for your kids, and all your years of NI have paid for the asylum seekers treatment but it wont pay for yours".

In fact, I think charging for treatment is wrong. If the government want to stop it, they need to look at other ways of preventing the problem as having to pay would not be a deterrent. People would not be able to pay at the scene, they would then claim they are unable to pay after as they are on income support, it would go to a debt agency and they would end up paying £2 a month while the government would pay even more by selling the debts to an agency.

Charging for medical treatment would not work in this country.

[oakie]

i had it on in the background but i wasn't really paying attention - sounds like its worth another viewing.
For anyone who missed it its of 4od catch-up:
The Hospital - Channel 4

[mjn]

I read the report in the paper, but missed the programme. The report gave me a good enough impression of what happens, and it doesn't surprise me.

[Zeromajor]

Originally Posted by robfosters

Do you mean just A+E or in general?

Charging someone for say, cirrhosis of the liver would be totally wrong. It's like charging people for lung cancer.

"Yeah, you're dying, but it's your own fault, so all the money you have will be taken by us for your treatment and not left for your kids, and all your years of NI have paid for the asylum seekers treatment but it wont pay for yours".

In fact, I think charging for treatment is wrong. If the government want to stop it, they need to look at other ways of preventing the problem as having to pay would not be a deterrent. People would not be able to pay at the scene, they would then claim they are unable to pay after as they are on income support, it would go to a debt agency and they would end up paying £2 a month while the government would pay even more by selling the debts to an agency.

Charging for medical treatment would not work in this country.

It's precisely that soft attitude towards these no life spongers that's got this country in the state it's in.

charging for treatment of ailments/injuries that are self inflicted should be mandatory. Alcoholics & drug-users should be invoiced, regardless of the financial problems it would cause them or their families. What other deterrent can you employ to stop people abusing the system - locking them up would cost us more, killing them is the logical conclusion but considered morally abhorent.

It absolutely sickens me knowing that methodone is prescribed with tax-payers money.

I didn't watch the program but I used to live with a nurse and the stories she came home with made me wonder why anyone would bother trying to help these 'people'.

[loz]

Originally Posted by Zeromajor

charging for treatment of ailments/injuries that are self inflicted should be mandatory.

How far do you want to take it?

huge numbers of ailments could be deemed as 'self inflicted' as they could for example be traced to an imperfect diet or incorrect levels of exercise. Either too much, or too little, in both cases.

All sports injuries would be self inflicted. You should avoid sport.

Car accident? Well you shouldn't have been in the car....

[Iccz]

Originally Posted by loz

How far do you want to take it?

huge numbers of ailments could be deemed as 'self inflicted' as they could for example be traced to an imperfect diet or incorrect levels of exercise. Either too much, or too little, in both cases.

All sports injuries would be self inflicted. You should avoid sport.

Car accident? Well you shouldn't have been in the car....

There's a difference between driving a car and going out and getting "wasted" then getting injured becasue of what you were doing.

[loz]

Originally Posted by Iccz

There's a difference between driving a car and going out and getting "wasted" then getting injured becasue of what you were doing.

tell that to a NHS lawyer once such a measure is introduced....

Is there a difference between "getting wasted" and having too much salt on your dinner?

They are both self-inflicted, and both could result in the same costs to the health service.

How are you going to separate the two?

[Iccz]

Originally Posted by loz

tell that to a NHS lawyer once such a measure is introduced....

Is there a difference between "getting wasted" and having too much salt on your dinner?

They are both self-inflicted, and both could result in the same costs to the health service.

How are you going to separate the two?

If the driver or person playing sports was over a certain limit defined then fair enough, i'm sure to do such charging they will have a limit, and you will be tested to see if you are over it, just like when driving.
That's how you separate them...

Though some people who might be over a set limit will have a genuine accident that is not an act of stupidity etc...

Too much salt isn't going to end up in my getting into a fight, or having a lot of the accidents that drinkers have on nights out.

Sure it's not good for you but it's a different story.

[loz]

Originally Posted by Iccz

If the driver or person playing sports was over a certain limit defined then fair enough, i'm sure to do such charging they will have a limit, and you will be tested to see if you are over it, just like when driving.
That's how you separate them...

Though some people who might be over a set limit will have a genuine accident that is not an act of stupidity etc...

Too much salt isn't going to end up in my getting into a fight, or having a lot of the accidents that drinkers have on nights out.

Sure it's not good for you but it's a different story.

I understand where you are coming from.

I was just making the point that you cannot introduce a simple blanket "self inflicted" rule. It would be unworkable in practice, and quickly abused by the NHS as a money making scheme. "sorry sir, the results of your blood test are back, and your salt levels are too high. You didn't read the government guidelines? well that's not our fault. Do you have £25k to pay for the triple bypass?"

[Iccz]

Originally Posted by loz

I understand where you are coming from.

I was just making the point that you cannot introduce a simple blanket "self inflicted" rule. It would be unworkable in practice, and quickly abused by the NHS as a money making scheme. "sorry sir, the results of your blood test are back, and your salt levels are too high. You didn't read the government guidelines? well that's not our fault. Do you have £25k to pay for the triple bypass?"

I think the likes of salt etc in a diet are different to going out and abusing alcohol/drugs for a night and then getting injured because you were drunk/high.

Diet is something that is over time, a lot of people have caused problems from diet before there were strong warnings about these issues, with alcohol, going out getting drunk and getting into a fight is easily avoided, okay you might get in a fight without the alcohol, but the point is a lot of acidents and injuries are caused or the risk is increased because of the state the person is in.

It's not like you go to A&E for triple bypass surgery, if the salt was the cause of a broken leg or a large cut that needed stitches etc, then fair enough... A&E charges would come into it.

You don't see people binge on salt and go out then get injured because of the high levels of salt in their body, and as far as i'm aware there are not many accidents or injuries because of salt.

Long term problems I don't think there is justifcation for charging people, with alcohol abuse, or bad diet, but for things such as going out on the binge and ending up in hospital because of that, I think it's a fair ask.

[mjn]

Originally Posted by loz

I understand where you are coming from.

I was just making the point that you cannot introduce a simple blanket "self inflicted" rule. It would be unworkable in practice, and quickly abused by the NHS as a money making scheme. "sorry sir, the results of your blood test are back, and your salt levels are too high. You didn't read the government guidelines? well that's not our fault. Do you have £25k to pay for the triple bypass?"

The difference is, consuming high levels of salt can be caught early enough before its too late, unlike getting smashed which happens in a matter of hours.

[kayzee]

Didn't see the programme but was it about people getting beaten up etc?

I spent new years eve in A&E thanks to this. Was me and two mates dancing in a club doing no harm to anyone when I was punched the face by someone for no reason. Attempted to reason with them until I got punched by two more people, knocking me to the floor and ending up with a broken nose, several cracked teeth and bruises. There were nine of them altogether.

Haven't really been clubbing since, getting too old for this ****...

[Wild Weasel]

Episode 1 (of 3) is repeated next Monday at 11.55 pm, or on Channel 4 Catch-Up.

[Miyazaki]

Originally Posted by Greg

Did they say what the cost to the NHS was of treating the youngsters who have too much too drink?

If so, perhaps they should be charged?

They should charge them by tripling the price of alcohol per unit. Chavs couldn't afford to get drunk then.

[Decadence]

Originally Posted by robfosters

Do you mean just A+E or in general?

Charging someone for say, cirrhosis of the liver would be totally wrong. It's like charging people for lung cancer.

"Yeah, you're dying, but it's your own fault, so all the money you have will be taken by us for your treatment and not left for your kids, and all your years of NI have paid for the asylum seekers treatment but it wont pay for yours".

In fact, I think charging for treatment is wrong. If the government want to stop it, they need to look at other ways of preventing the problem as having to pay would not be a deterrent. People would not be able to pay at the scene, they would then claim they are unable to pay after as they are on income support, it would go to a debt agency and they would end up paying £2 a month while the government would pay even more by selling the debts to an agency.

Charging for medical treatment would not work in this country.

I'm not sure about charging for the long-term abuse...but people who get legless and then have to be sorted out by A&E definitely need to foot the bill, in addition to the £80 spot fine for public disorder.

[wormvortex]

you should be charged if your admitted to A&E for being drunken and the reason there is down to that. Obviously if you've been out drunken and someone has broken your arm or you've tripped you shouldn't but if you've drunk so much so as to require a trip to A&E you defiantly should.

TBH I've drank far far far too much on occasions and never once ended up in A&E. Really don't see how so many youngsters do.