[_Dragon_]

I was on the look out for a good running machine,But size and money is my main concern,But then i heared about the elyptical machines,Some people say that are as good as a running machine,Whats your views? Im looking at this one,Reviews are good and its not going to burn a hole in my pocket.

Buy Pro Fitness CrossTrainer. at Argos.co.uk - Your Online Shop for .

[Iccz]

Elyptical machines are good, they work your arms and waise more than a normal running machine.

There are pros and cons to both really, depends what you're goal is.
If you are looking to improve your running style and stamina then i'd go for a standard treadmill, they give better resistance and true style (obviously nothing can beat running outdoors if possible) they also give the option for incline etc.

Elyptical machines are good work outs they're easy to use, work more of your body and often take up less space while being quieter, there is always a lot of debate between the two to which is best, but it all depends on your goals and what you want from the machine.

Both are great for the heart and legs.
What is your reason for getting one of the machines and what are you looking to improve on etc?
Any certain requirements?
If you have knee/joint problems etc then go elyptical for sure!

The one you've linked to is quite cheap, it looks alright for your basic starting out x-trainer.

[Steven]

manual mini walking machine how many times a day should we use it and for how long

Same still applies as running is still higher intensity than elliptical machines, and thus a higher calorie deficit over the same period of time, albeit still a step up from the Wii or walking

[_Dragon_]

Im trying to help my g/f loose weight so ive said ill will join in,We have been using a wii fit but it doesn't do anything for me,I hardly build up a sweat,For me i want to feel better in myself and loose some of my weight on my sides (love handles lol).I think by reading what you have said a elyptical is for me. Do you think the argos one is good enough to buy.

[Iccz]

Originally Posted by _Dragon_

Im trying to help my g/f loose weight so ive said ill will join in,We have been using a wii fit but it doesn't do anything for me,I hardly build up a sweat,For me i want to feel better in myself and loose some of my weight on my sides (love handles lol).I think by reading what you have said a elyptical is for me. Do you think the argos one is good enough to buy.

It's a cheap one but it does the job by the looks of it, has quite good reviews.
For the money you won't get a lot of adjustability etc but it will be good for starting out, you have to remember a lot of people buy these things and hardly use them after the novelty of the first few months have worn off.
I think it would be a good buy for you and your gf to get started on it, see how you enjoy using it, how you progress, then if you really like it you can justify investing in a more advanced one in the future, the last thing you want to do now is spend £200+ on a machine you'll hardly use.

[Dancook]

Long Thread Summary: The best way to lose fat, is in the kitchen!

also. It is easier to not eat the calories then to try to burn them off.

In the last month I've been obsessed with fat loss and read the bodybuilding fat loss forums regularly. So sorry if this is a bit heavy for you.. don't want to scare you off trying to get fit

They have a couple of fat loss for noobs threads, the most basic being

- Workout 3 times a week with weights.
- Eat 1g protein / lb lean body mass.
- Reduce calories to lose 1-2 lbs / week.

and a bit more detail

1. Create a calorie deficit. A good starting point is your current weight x 12.
2. Eat 6 meals a day, each containing a lean protein and complex carb.
3. Drink 8+ glasses of water per day.
4. Eat 2+ servings of vegetables per day.
5. Perform at least 20 minutes of high intensity cardio at least 3x per week.
6. Train with weights vigorously at least 3x per week.
7. Consume 1g protein per lb. of lean body mass.
8. Train your abs a maximum of 3x per week.
9. Take a multivitamin daily and use protein shakes as a meal replacement.
10. Limit your cheat meal to 1x per week.

Credit to wave_length and o-Phantom-o of bodybuilding.com

Some things I've learnt..

Losing fat is 80%* diet and your tummy fat and love handles are the last places you will lose fat.

The first thing that helped me lose fat is to use an online calorie calculator to see what my maintenance calorie requirement is. I then calculated a days meals and worked from there, as long as you consume perhaps 500 calories less than your maintenance calorie requirement each day then you will lose fat.

This does not mean you have to go hungry, for example I eat:
2 x Poached Egg on Dry Wholemeal Toast for breakfast and yoghurt
Protein shake, Almonds Mid morning
Jacket, Tuna with Mayo, Salad for lunch
Apple Banana and Protein shake for afternoon
Dinner varies, Chilli concarne, Prawn Stirfry, Chicken Mash and Veg
Workout in evening then have a Chicken breast in wholemeal pitta afterwards

The total calories per day is less than my maintenance, so I've been losing fat for the last month and I'm very happy.

If you want me to try and offer further advice I will do my best, but I'll stop before I go over the top :D

[Steven]

Excess calories are excess calories regardless of where they come from. I certainly would not advise somebody to be drinking protein shakes when they have no intention of stepping up to that level of intensity and does not have the base physical fitness to get away with topping up their protein

Take yourself as an example Dancook. Banana flavoured protein shakes. Protein and protein. Which might work for you but I would definitely advise against someone such as here who is asking for advice on a basic level of building some level of fitness. I mean you eat roughly twice the amount I do on a daily basis but I am slap bang in the middle of my advised BMI (which is just a rough guide people). Which goes to show everybody is different and needs to tailor to suit their needs.
And if you want muscles then doing the cardio well and then building up your training is better anyway. I laugh at guys who have a beer gut and think a warmup and cardio should last 2 minutes and then jump straight into weights

Eating sensibly and doing some level of physical activity is advised. Going on a crash diet and only playing the Wii on occasion is not because you inevitably will not keep it up and then you are back to square one. Finiding that balance around work is what is needed.

Don't buy snacks, you won't snack. Avoid the biscuit aisle Eat more fruit and veg. And just in case, yes gorging yourself on oranges and sitting on the sofa will also mean the fructose is converted into fat. But natural sugars in fruit are a lot better for the body than processed sugars.
Example: Apple (as one of the cited high-sugar fruits) has 1 gram of fructose, but that is contained within the fruit, whereas that 1 gram of fructose if its not from fruit will be from a cookie, icing on a cake or several times over in a can of fizzy drink. Fruit is better for your teeth in that respect

P.S. Multi-vitamins are only necessary if your diet is so unvaried Blackberries are rich in vit c for example. No need to take a vit c tablet after snacking on a bunch of blackberries

[Dancook]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

Excess calories are excess calories regardless of where they come from. I certainly would not advise somebody to be drinking protein shakes when they have no intention of stepping up to that level of intensity and does not have the base physical fitness to get away with topping up their protein

Take yourself as an example Dancook. Banana flavoured protein shakes. Protein and protein. Which might work for you but I would definitely advise against someone such as here who is asking for advice on a basic level of building some level of fitness. I mean you eat roughly twice the amount I do on a daily basis but I am slap bang in the middle of my advised BMI (which is just a rough guide people). Which goes to show everybody is different and needs to tailor to suit their needs.

Yes maybe I went a bit too obsessive!

My diet was just meant as an example that you don't have to go on a hunger strike to lower your calorie intake.

(edit. My Maintenance is actually ~2500-2800, so I aim to consume about 2100 calories per day, when RDA for men is 2500, i'm not eating all that much.)

In a quote it was mentioned "Eat 1g protein / lb lean body mass." which still counts, I probably do take too much protein for my intended purposes - but as you mentioned for me it works, and I'm healthy enough for it not to matter.

But yes, maybe I need to chill on the whole diet thing I'm going to drive people insane.

[Iccz]

It makes me giggle how every fitness thread on here always turns into a protein / supplement discussion.

While diet is an important part of reaching your desired size/shape/weight the amount of indepth talk that often comes up in these forums is a bit ott, while relevant for some, most just need to cut down on the fats and exercise a little more, talks of protein etc should come into it more when it's a regular work out using weights etc, though i'm not saying proteins aren't necessary etc. All depends on your goals and lifestyle.

Though if you are looking into it deep what Dan has said is going down the right road, just need to look into your Basal Metabolic Rate etc and do the math to suit.

Not necessary for just doing a few minutes on running machines a few times a week, though obviously a good diet is always advised.

[Steven]

That 2500 calories RDA for men is the biggest ******** there is, as people in Western countries are just not active enough to even need that amount of intake for the amount of 'graft' they do

[Iccz]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

That 2500 calories RDA for men is the biggest ******** there is, as people in Western countries are just not active enough to even need that amount of intake for the amount of 'graft' they do

I imagine the calorie burn while moderating these forums can get quite high at times

[oj0]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

That 2500 calories RDA for men is the biggest ******** there is, as people in Western countries are just not active enough to even need that amount of intake for the amount of 'graft' they do

Totally agreed with almost everything you have said LFC. Protein shakes are necessary for people looking to stack on muscle as it is a much more convenient way of reaching your protein targets without spending your life in the kitchen making chicken, tuna, eggs, beef etc.

Michael Phelps reportedly consumes around 6000 calories per day when in full training but this is understandable given the amount of activity he is asking his body to perform. On the other hand, I sit at a desk from 9-5 so why would I need to eat the same amount of calories as him? (just an extreme example to show that we are all different!)

A simple way of getting started with fat loss is to lower your fat intake as this reduces your calories (there are 9 calories per gram of fat and only 4 calories per gram of protein or carbs). This way you don't feel as if you are starving yourself but are still reducing calorie intake.

If you want to get really serious about weight loss (when you are further down the track) then lower your carb intake and raise your fat intake. Remember, always try and eat healthy, whole foods where possible and this advice would be sufficient for a normal office worker, shop assistant etc for example.

[Dancook]

Originally Posted by oj0

Totally agreed with almost everything you have said LFC. Protein shakes are necessary for people looking to stack on muscle as it is a much more convenient way of reaching your protein targets without spending your life in the kitchen making chicken, tuna, eggs, beef etc.

Protein shakes are not just for muscle building

However, a diet based on increased (but not excessive) levels of protein has been shown in a number of studies to give an added boost to dieters by helping them increase weight loss, increase loss of body fat, and reduce the loss of muscle tissue. Many experts recommend a diet containing 25 to 35 percent protein for weight loss and between 20 to 25 percent protein for weight maintenance. In both cases, the protein should be high quality protein.

“Whey protein is a high quality, complete protein source with little to no fat that can help control hunger and weight,” says Dr. Julie Miller Jones, a professor of nutrition at the College of St. Catherine in St. Paul, Minn.

[Iccz]

Originally Posted by oj0

Totally agreed with almost everything you have said LFC. Protein shakes are necessary for people looking to stack on muscle as it is a much more convenient way of reaching your protein targets without spending your life in the kitchen making chicken, tuna, eggs, beef etc.

Michael Phelps reportedly consumes around 6000 calories per day when in full training but this is understandable given the amount of activity he is asking his body to perform. On the other hand, I sit at a desk from 9-5 so why would I need to eat the same amount of calories as him? (just an extreme example to show that we are all different!)

A simple way of getting started with fat loss is to lower your fat intake as this reduces your calories (there are 9 calories per gram of fat and only 4 calories per gram of protein or carbs). This way you don't feel as if you are starving yourself but are still reducing calorie intake.

If you want to get really serious about weight loss (when you are further down the track) then lower your carb intake and raise your fat intake. Remember, always try and eat healthy, whole foods where possible and this advice would be sufficient for a normal office worker, shop assistant etc for example.

Agreed, I always say unless you're doing something more extreme like you mentioned Mr Phelps or a Bodybuilder, then if you need to supplement your diet with protein shakes etc, then you have a bad diet.

Reducing fat isn't always the case, it's the trans-fats which you need to avoid, calories are a big part you need to find out all the numbers based on your actions (exercise etc), your BMR and your consumptions.

I notice you mention lowering carbs, what are your reasons for this, low carb diets/carb curfews and no carb diets have no scientific proof backing them, a lot of people try these diets as a shortcut, usually when you cut carbs you cut the fat you eat etc etc, if you don't lose weight cutting carbs something would be wrong, but it is not the best way to go about it, far from it in my view.
Not sure if you're hinting at a low carb diet etc, so don't get me wrong i'm not attacking what you said here.

[oj0]

Originally Posted by Dancook

Protein shakes are not just for muscle building

True, protein shakes are not just for muscle building but I think you are missing the point. RDAs are generally just a guideline to how a diet should be composed. Your body needs protein to prevent muscle breakdown as well as muscle hypertrophy. There are better ways to get your protein intakes then through a powder such as through whole foods. Admittedly it is expensive to eat a chicken breast or cook a steak every time you want to load up with protein which is where whey protein becomes useful.

Having a greater lean muscle mass increases your metabolism as muscle demands calories to stay functional, hence the more lean muscle your body has, the greater number of calories your body would burn it a stagnant state.

What I am saying is that there is little point ingesting whey protein unless it provides something that you cant get from whole foods. In the case of most bodybuilders (and I admit that I consider myself loosely in that camp) then whey protein has its greatest use post workout where the body is in a state of muscle catabolism and therefore whey is a fast digested protein that can help to halt this negative effect on muscle.

Originally Posted by Iccz

Agreed, I always say unless you're doing something more extreme like you mentioned Mr Phelps or a Bodybuilder, then if you need to supplement your diet with protein shakes etc, then you have a bad diet.

Reducing fat isn't always the case, it's the trans-fats which you need to avoid, calories are a big part you need to find out all the numbers based on your actions (exercise etc), your BMR and your consumptions.

I notice you mention lowering carbs, what are your reasons for this, low carb diets/carb curfews and no carb diets have no scientific proof backing them, a lot of people try these diets as a shortcut, usually when you cut carbs you cut the fat you eat etc etc, if you don't lose weight cutting carbs something would be wrong, but it is not the best way to go about it, far from it in my view.
Not sure if you're hinting at a low carb diet etc, so don't get me wrong i'm not attacking what you said here.

No I understand what you are saying and to a degree I am saying that low-carb diets have their place dependent on what your overall goal is. Reducing fat, and subsequently reducing calories is an excellent method of lowering calories and can help almost everyone shed some weight, however when you reach a point of low bodyfat (lets say 10-12% for example), lowering fat may be restrictive to what the body needs to function. Lowering carbohydrates to reduce calories and ingesting more healthy fats (omega 3s, mono-unsaturated fats) can stimulate the body to use existing fat stores.

Essentially this is following a Ketogenic diet, which is recommended for certain medical conditions and is also a diet followed closely by bodybuilders often in the competition phase looking to get rid of those final few pounds of fat.

I am not aiming to promote a low carb diet, merely stating that it has positive effects to a degree based on what your overall goal is.

The key to losing fat on a permanent basis is to adopt a healthy diet including the nutrients that your body NEEDS to survive and understanding why you are doing so. Undertaking a crash diet teaches the individual very little hence why most people tend to put the weight back on soon after its completion. Coupled with a good exercise routine and you should be on to a winner.

[_Dragon_]

WOW long thread

I think im going to go with a elyptical,Ive been doing a search and have found the Cintura 650 has good reviews.Sport & Leisure UK - Elliptical trainers - Cintura650 elliptical cross trainer

[oj0]

lol sorry. hope it didnt seem condescending to you, didnt mean it to be!

best of luck with the cross-trainer!

[Desmo]

One thing I would say about a cross trainer is to try one. I know it's difficult if you're not a member of a gym but try and find a local sports shop that might have one you can try. I tried one once and absolutely hated it. They just feel really odd to me and I lasted a couple of minutes and couldn't hack it any more. Would hate to see you waste your money.

[_Dragon_]

Im not a member of my local club anymore,I wonder if the same person is still working in the club,If so im sure he will let me have a quick go just to see how i feel,Thanks for your advice

[Steven]

Its like a cross between riding a bike standing up and skiing - but in a controlled environment. Pretty standard fair and very easy. I have to up the resistance to 10.0 before its worth using.

The key is to try to not bend your knees. You inevitably will but you'll go faster and work up a sweat. If you are not and only intend to do it gently then you might as well just go walking outdoors and at least get to take in some of mother nature. Some do it backwards for that extra burn

[_Dragon_]

Do these make much noise,Just thinking of the neigbours

[Iccz]

Originally Posted by _Dragon_

Do these make much noise,Just thinking of the neigbours

They make a little bit, depending on the model etc, but generally they're a lot quieter than a standard treadmill, the neighbors shouldn't be bothered by the noise it makes.

[Steven]

No more noisy than a cycling machine. Definitely quieter than a treadmill. The ones at the gym seem to need servicing every few months, but obviously they get a lot more usage