[Johnny1979]

Got into a discussion with my brother about polish workers. He said its illegal for them to be paid less than the minimum wage.

I disagreed stating that it is legal and they must be in the uk for a certain period of time.

Was on the gov website there, it tells me all about minimum wage but does not discuss foreign workers.

[pandemic]

Everyone eligible to work in the UK must be paid minimum wage. Doesn't matter where they are from or how long they have been here.

here's the .gov:

Who can get the minimum wage?

Most adult workers who:

* Are working legally in the UK
* Are not genuinely self-employed
* Have a written, oral or implied contract

[whiskyboozer]

Yes they are eligible for minimum wage, whether they get paid it or not is a different matter.

Maybe OP you were thinking about their rights to certain welfare benefits i.e. JSA. They have to have been registered with the workers registration scheme and working for 12 months in order to qualify.

[Phil57]

Originally Posted by Johnny1979

Got into a discussion with my brother about polish workers. He said its illegal for them to be paid less than the minimum wage.

I disagreed stating that it is legal and they must be in the uk for a certain period of time.

Was on the gov website there, it tells me all about minimum wage but does not discuss foreign workers.

Don't you just hate it when your brother is proved right?...

[JagoPlasma]

if they are on a YTS they can be paid whatever the employer wants. in 2001 i was earning £250pcm and doing 40hrs a week

minimum wage my ass

also didnt get a minutes worth of training either

[pandemic]

Originally Posted by JagoPlasma

if they are on a YTS they can be paid whatever the employer wants. in 2001 i was earning £250pcm and doing 40hrs a week

minimum wage my ass

also didnt get a minutes worth of training either

That's because you were under 18 or because it was a training scheme, there is a lower minimum wage for 16-18 year olds. The 'proper' minimum wage applies to ALL adults.

[JagoPlasma]

As said, i was on a YTS. I was also an adult. but I was still paid well below the NMW.

and im sure they could do it for the polish too if they wanted

[Phil57]

Age 22 years and over you are entitled to the national minimum rate.
My personal feeling is that employees that work for less than what they are entitled to, and accept less paid holidays than they are entitled to, only deserve what they are paid.
That said employers that pay less than the minimum wage or holidays should be shut down at the earliest opportunity.

I'll take my laptop to the nearest air raid shelter now.

[Desmo]

Originally Posted by Phil57

That said employers that pay less than the minimum wage or holidays should be shut down at the earliest opportunity.

You should try being an employer. We haven't had to do this, but minimum wage has cost some people their jobs as employers couldn't afford to keep them on. We have a few little jobs around the office that need doing but I doub't we'll take somebody on due to the minimum wage level, it's just not worth it.

[whiskyboozer]

Originally Posted by Desmo

You should try being an employer. We haven't had to do this, but minimum wage has cost some people their jobs as employers couldn't afford to keep them on. We have a few little jobs around the office that need doing but I doub't we'll take somebody on due to the minimum wage level, it's just not worth it.

If you cant run your business without paying your employees a poor wage then you don't have a business, jack it in and do something else

[pandemic]

Originally Posted by whiskyboozer

If you cant run your business without paying your employees a poor wage then you don't have a business, jack it in and do something else

What experience do you base that on? Get out into the real world there are thousands of businesses who cannot afford to pay minimum wage and hundred close down due to it.

[Desmo]

A touch judgmental don't you think? You know nothing of the business yet tell me to jack it in?

Small businesses in this country are finding it harder and harder to survive due to rules and regulations constantly changing around them. It's not always easy to just adapt at the flick of a switch, much like the extra holiday we are forced to give now. Whilst minimum wage can be a good thing, it has, in my opinion, kept some people out of work as businesses cannot afford to meet those minimum requirements. We all want goods cheaper, but we all want to earn a decent wage. It's no wonder we can't manufacture things in the UK any more.

I'd be genuinely interested on your experiences and thoughts of running a small business

[Phil57]

Originally Posted by bla5er

What experience do you base that on? Get out into the real world there are thousands of businesses who cannot afford to pay minimum wage and hundred close down due to it.

Although I don't go along with what whiskyboozer has said, your answer provides no logic.
If a business produces nuts and bolts and is unable to pay at least minimum wage to its employees, how then does a business 'down the road' producing the same items manage to pay?

[Perceval]

Send 'em all back................

[pandemic]

Originally Posted by Phil57

Although I don't go along with what whiskyboozer has said, your answer provides no logic.
If a business produces nuts and bolts and is unable to pay at least minimum wage to its employees, how then does a business 'down the road' producing the same items manage to pay?

That's like saying why can tescos pay minimum wage, but the local corner shop can't.

[Pack Dude]

Originally Posted by Desmo

You should try being an employer. We haven't had to do this, but minimum wage has cost some people their jobs as employers couldn't afford to keep them on. We have a few little jobs around the office that need doing but I doub't we'll take somebody on due to the minimum wage level, it's just not worth it.

Do you earn more than minimum wage? Maybe if everyone in your business took a pay cut down to minimum wage you could take on more staff?

[Desmo]

Originally Posted by pack man

Do you earn more than minimum wage?

Yes. I take all of the financial risk when things go wrong, no point in doing that for minimum wage is there.

Originally Posted by pack man

Maybe if everyone in your business took a pay cut down to minimum wage you could take on more staff?

Whilst that would be ideal, reality means it's not that simple.

[steptoe]

no employers nics on the minimum wage,but then again no nics if you pay yourself dividends

[Phil57]

Originally Posted by bla5er

That's like saying why can tescos pay minimum wage, but the local corner shop can't.

No its not like saying that at all, I would think most people would get the jist of what I was saying.

[pandemic]

Your statement was very ambigious. Give a real case to back it up. Truth is while one business may cope yet another may not, all depends on each companies finances, employees skills/productivity levels, customer base, brand, etc. Lot's of factors need to be taken into consideration

[dazza74]

I think it's important to have some form of minimum wage myself, you've got to have some form of regulation to avoid people getting £1 an hour or something ridiculous like that. What I think is completely wrong currently is that unlike Germany this country would sooner lose jobs and put people on benefits as opposed to providing the employer with some form of payment to top up wages when a company is struggling to keep people employed.

I work a market once a week and a number of people I speak to reckon they are taking about a third of what they were doing a couple of years ago, it's all very well people posting about jacking in a business and doing something else but when you've invested your life savings in something or you hold stock it's just not that simple, I wish it were.

[dejongj]

There is of-course a whole grey area with people who are self-employed...And as a director you don't have to pay yourself the minimum wage so you can undercut everyone easily if you wanted to work like that....Also a lot of those people, especially with a one-person-ltd, don't show up in the statistics of unemployed as technically they aren't....

I'm for minimum wage, but it should also be that employers have more rights.....Everything is in favour of the employee....The balance is just not right at the moment.....

[Ultima]

Minimum wage legislation has led to an awful lot of people getting paid more than they're worth.

[whiskyboozer]

Originally Posted by Desmo

A touch judgmental don't you think? You know nothing of the business yet tell me to jack it in?

Small businesses in this country are finding it harder and harder to survive due to rules and regulations constantly changing around them. It's not always easy to just adapt at the flick of a switch, much like the extra holiday we are forced to give now. Whilst minimum wage can be a good thing, it has, in my opinion, kept some people out of work as businesses cannot afford to meet those minimum requirements. We all want goods cheaper, but we all want to earn a decent wage. It's no wonder we can't manufacture things in the UK any more.

I'd be genuinely interested on your experiences and thoughts of running a small business

Sounds like your employees should be paying you for the privilege of coming to work

God forbid that somebody would want some time off from their work. I applaud the introduction of an additional four days leave per year for those who work five days a week. If you work part time it's 5.6 times your usual working week.

People don't necessarily want things cheaper they want quality. I stick with the old adage if you pay peanuts you get monkeys.

In the interests of clarity I have no experience of running a small company or employing anyone for that matter. But that does not bar me from having an opinion.

[Desmo]

Originally Posted by whiskyboozer

Sounds like your employees should be paying you for the privilege of coming to work

It would make it a whole lot easier

Originally Posted by whiskyboozer

God forbid that somebody would want some time off from their work. I applaud the introduction of an additional four days leave per year for those who work five days a week. If you work part time it's 5.6 times your usual working week.

But don't we get enough time off work anyway? I'm no workaholic but we have a decent amount of holiday and then bank holidays on top of that. To now be FORCED to give extra days is not on in my opinion. But as per usual, these things are decided by people who aren't affected by it.

Originally Posted by whiskyboozer

People don't necessarily want things cheaper they want quality. I stick with the old adage if you pay peanuts you get monkeys.

I agree with you there. I like to keep to quality items when I can, but I can't dictate the purchase prices in my trade (printing) and have to keep prices competitive. Sometimes that means paying peanuts.

Originally Posted by whiskyboozer

In the interests of clarity I have no experience of running a small company or employing anyone for that matter. But that does not bar me from having an opinion.

Of course you can have an opinion. But at least we now know what it's based on

I know I probably sound like a right old whinge bag, but it gets harder and harder to run a small business when so many things are being stacked up against you. Minimum pay, holidays, maternity and paternity leave and pay. It makes you wonder why we all bother at times. It would be nice for those in power need to remember that small businesses are the biggest employers in the nation.

[whiskyboozer]

Remember though the 28 days includes public holidays.

I do agree with you to some extent on maternity pay and leave. But then you can claim the maternity pay back from HM Govt. But I do realise it must be a royal pain in the derriere coping with one less member of staff and organising replacements etc.

As for me I wouldn't get out of bed for less than 70K p.a, or have less than 40 days of per year (including public holidays)

[dejongj]

Originally Posted by whiskyboozer

Remember though the 28 days includes public holidays.

I do agree with you to some extent on maternity pay and leave. But then you can claim the maternity pay back from HM Govt. But I do realise it must be a royal pain in the derriere coping with one less member of staff and organising replacements etc.

As for me I wouldn't get out of bed for less than 70K p.a, or have less than 40 days of per year (including public holidays)

Ah that lovely urban myth...Just claim it back...You still need to make enough money in the first place to 'claim' something back....Funny how employees don't remember the 'extra' holiday as actually a pay increase! Less working time but the same money...Well someone has to pay for it....And ultimately it is the employees themselves as they are also consumers....and that is why the spiral gets out of control...

[whiskyboozer]

Originally Posted by dejongj

Ah that lovely urban myth...Just claim it back...You still need to make enough money in the first place to 'claim' something back....Funny how employees don't remember the 'extra' holiday as actually a pay increase! Less working time but the same money...Well someone has to pay for it....And ultimately it is the employees themselves as they are also consumers....and that is why the spiral gets out of control...

From HMRC website

HM Revenue & Customs:


Recovering SMP

How much do I get back?

The amount you get back normally depends on your total gross, employer's plus employee's, Class 1 NICs in the appropriate tax year. You can use your form P35 Employer Annual Return, as a quick check of this.

If your annual liability for Class 1 NIC’s is £45,000 or less you are entitled to:

* 100% of the Statutory Maternity Pay (SMP), and
* an additional amount as compensation for the NICs you pay on the SMP. The compensation rate for 2009–10 is 4.5%.

Add together all payments of SMP made in the same tax months for which you are entitled to recover and calculate 100% plus 4.5% of that total figure.

The qualifying tax year for SMP purposes is the last complete tax year before the employee's 15th week before the week baby due.

If your annual liability for Class 1 NIC’s is more than £45,000 you are entitled to 92% of the SMP.

Add together all payments of SMP made in the same tax months for which you are entitled to recover and calculate 92% of that total figure.

If you only had part-year or no annual liability for Class 1 NICs for the previous tax year and this could be either more or less than £45,000. You will need to check whether it is £45,000, more than £45,000 or less than £45,000:

for babies due between 20 July 2008 and

* for babies due between 20 July 2008 and 25 July 2009, check your liability for 2007–08.
* for babies due between 18 July 2009 and 19 July 2010, check your liability for 2008–09.

[dejongj]

As I said, you still need to earn it to pay it......

[Desmo]

Originally Posted by whiskyboozer

As for me I wouldn't get out of bed for less than 70K p.a, or have less than 40 days of per year (including public holidays)

I guess a lot of us would like to be in your shoes, or maybe not as I don't know what you have to do to earn your money

But in my world of a humble small business, things don't always run smoothly and it sometimes feels like more and more things are being stacked against you in favour of the employee.