[lucasisking]

Last week our government officially betrayed the principles of free speech by deporting a free citizen of Europe and elected democrat who had committed no crime. The Dutch MP, Mr Geert Wilders, had made a documentary film that is critical of radical Islam and links it with passages from the Koran. He was due to participate in a civilised discussion about how to work with Muslims to address the issues highlighted in the film. Based on threats of violent protest, the government capitulated and had Mr Wilders thrown out. In doing so, they have shamed our nation and insulted those who paid for our freedom with their blood.

In response, I have written a polite letter to the Home secretary responsible, Jacqui Smith MP objecting to her actions. I'll post it here if anyone's intrested. I don’t expect a response, nevertheless I urge everyone who cares about free speech, whether you agree with Mr Wilders views or not, to lodge your own protests against this unacceptable and cowardly abuse of freedom.

Moderators- Please note that I have not posted this to start another 'religion debate'. This is about freedom of speech and only that.

[wellladida]

I would like to see the response you get when/IF you get one thats is.

[lucasisking]

Originally Posted by wellladida

I would like to see the response you get when/IF you get one thats is.

I will most certainly post it here when it arrives, together with a copy of my jackpot winning lottery ticket

[eric pisch]

My understanding is that the video is biased, miss representative and bordering on inciting racial hatred

if you get a response ask how big her sisters bedroom is that it justify s 20 grand a year in expenses

[Mep]

Originally Posted by eric pisch

My understanding is that the video is biased, miss representative and bordering on inciting racial hatred

if you get a response ask how big her sisters bedroom is that it justify s 20 grand a year in expenses

But that is missing the point of Free Speech. Since he was planning to show it to a select group of Lords it was hardly likely to incite violence, which is the only reason it legally could have been banned for.
I don't agree with him either (and I have seen the film), but I agree with the principles of free speech, which this Home Secretary has ridden roughshod over.

There was an excellent article in the Daily Telegraph about this recently. It is a very good unbiased comment and well worth a read.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/c...ee-speech.html

[eric pisch]

Originally Posted by Mep

But that is missing the point of Free Speech. Since he was planning to show it to a select group of Lords it was hardly likely to incite violence, which is the only reason it legally could have been banned for.
I don't agree with him either (and I have seen the film), but I agree with the principles of free speech, which this Home Secretary has ridden roughshod over.

we dont have free speech in this country, the thought police are everywhere, and with the amount of monitoring that goes on now we may as well call this a communist country

[Mep]

Originally Posted by eric pisch

we dont have free speech in this country, the thought police are everywhere, and with the amount of monitoring that goes on now we may as well call this a communist country

I wouldn't argue with that, and this case proves it.

I have edited my post above. Read the link, it is worth it.

[Duncan G]

It was correct of the UK Government to ban this man. He has made it quite clear he is anti Islam and wants the Koran banned in the Netherlands.

The political party he represents has only one member who is himself.

There would be no point in having him coming to this country.

[Mep]

Originally Posted by Duncan G

It was correct of the UK Government to ban this man. He has made it quite clear he is anti Islam and wants the Koran banned in the Netherlands.

The political party he represents has only one member who is himself.

There would be no point in having him coming to this country.

I agree with your first point but the second goes against freedom of speech, which is not about only allowing people 'we' agree with to speak, in fact quite the opposite.

The Op has asked for this thread to not be about religion but about free speech.

[NewMan]

Originally Posted by Duncan G

It was correct of the UK Government to ban this man. He has made it quite clear he is anti Islam and wants the Koran banned in the Netherlands.

And yet there are months, if not years of umming and aaahing about deporting one radical cleric who has made it quite clear he is anti-democracy and wants the Koran mandatory in this country....

The door swings both ways... or does it? Perhaps we should pander to extremism, just in case they get violent.


Not being (too) argumentative, just playing devils advocate.

Edit: Sorry OP. Was trying to make a point about free speech, but religion jumped in the way.

[xit2050]

Originally Posted by eric pisch

My understanding is that the video is biased, miss representative and bordering on inciting racial hatred

Have a look before judging: Fitna the Movie » Fitna the Movie

[lucasisking]

Originally Posted by eric pisch

My understanding is that the video is biased, miss representative and bordering on inciting racial hatred

Your understanding is most definately wrong. Not least because Islam does not constitute a 'race'.

I've seen Fitna and the video demostrates that many of the worst examples of extremism find justification within the Koran. The video only shows clips- and matches them to the apporpriate Koranic verses. Several of said verses are uttered by the perpetrators, which rules out the possibility of 'misquoting'. Nothing is said, nothing is preached and no-one is judged throughout the film. The audience is left to make up its own mind. He certainly says nothing against moderate muslims- its an attention grabber to start a much needed discussion- nothing more and nothing less.

All of which as MEP says is beside the point. Free speech cannot be curtailed without a very good reason. Wanting to take part in a civilised discussion and having a private screening of a film does not constitute a good reason.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by lucasisking

Moderators- Please note that I have not posted this to start another 'religion debate'. This is about freedom of speech and only that.

Originally Posted by lucasisking

Your understanding is most definately wrong. Not least because Islam does not constitute a 'race'.

I've seen Fitna and the video demostrates that many of the worst examples of extremism find justification within the Koran. The video only shows clips- and matches them to the apporpriate Koranic verses.

That didn't last long did it