[notfes53]

Hi,

I currently have a 13-month old Pioneer PDP-LX608D, in mint condition. I'm not sure how to check the hours used. However, it will be going to the Official Receiver in the New Year.

I'd be interested to know what kind of figure it should fetch. Insolvency law is quite complicated, but I may be allowed to replace it with some cheaper form of TV from the proceeds of its sale - with the balance going to the Official Receiver (OR) for my creditors.

Does anyone have an idea what it might achieve. I do not have the packing case, as I'd not have had space to store it. I own it outright, i.e it is not subject to any HP etc.

As I know that I'm insolvent, it would be illegal to sell it before I'm declared bankrupt. After I am declared bankrupt I think it will the responsibility of the OR to sell if they think it is worth the bother.

Fortunately, the majority of my other kit is quite old now, and will not have any great value/interest to the OR if I am lucky. AFAIK anything less than five years old will need to be declared. I'm hoping that stuff over five years need not be sold, but I suspect that my Linn record deck would have a re-sale value?

Anyone with experience of bankruptcy and AV kit? What must I list and what can I assume comes under the category of normal household appliances

It will all get a lot of use over Christmas.....

Thanks

[Suave]

Hi,

Reading our post reminds me of a friend of mine who unfortunately had some sort of 'accidental damage' on his plasma and in his case, he was able to claim off either his home contents insurance or extended warranty either money, a store credit note, vouchers or a new tv sent to an address of his choice - he loves his mother so had it sent to her instead.

Suave!

[Kieron]

No idea, just wanted to wish you good luck.

I'm sure you will be back on your feet soon.

[Newton's Ring]

Originally Posted by Kieron

No idea, just wanted to wish you good luck.

I'm sure you will be back on your feet soon.

ditto.

[shahedz]

as Kieron said, hope you're back on feet soon bud

[roger casement]

do you live alone if not maybe someone in the house could say it was their kit?

[ChrisAV]

Bad luck mate - hope it all works out for you.

I'd try Citizens Advice before selling anything, at least it wont cost you anything. Do you have a solicitor - might be worth checking if you qualify for legal aid?

Cheris

[notfes53]

Originally Posted by roger casement

do you live alone if not maybe someone in the house could say it was their kit?

Thanks for the thought, but the law is very strict on this point! If I make a false declaration and get found out - and it's really simple to get found out - when the Official Receiver goes through all my statements etc for the last few years, and sees that I purchased it on a 12-month interest-free loan that's in my credit history!

Apparently, now that I recognise that I'm insolvent I mustn't dispose of any assets in advance as I could be deemed to be up to no good, selling assets cheaply to my mates.

Not really worth going to prison for.....

[Epicurus]

No way for the OR to know if you sold this piece of equipment prior to going bankrupt.

You were in financial difficulty, you sold it to try and remain solvent but ultimately it did you no good anyway.

See my point?

You seem like a good honest person which is why you deserve to hold onto a few things. Otherwise the whole process can seem a bit ruthless, and in many cases you don't deserve it.

[internetuser]

MoneySavingExpert.com Forums

are a good help

[damo_in_sale]

Originally Posted by notfes53

Thanks for the thought, but the law is very strict on this point! If I make a false declaration and get found out - and it's really simple to get found out - when the Official Receiver goes through all my statements etc for the last few years, and sees that I purchased it on a 12-month interest-free loan that's in my credit history!

Apparently, now that I recognise that I'm insolvent I mustn't dispose of any assets in advance as I could be deemed to be up to no good, selling assets cheaply to my mates.

Not really worth going to prison for.....

I wrote the following in, what I concede, was a rather harsh manner. I am afraid that it does represent my opinion, but none the less, it may be unduly harsh:

Originally Posted by roger casement

do you live alone if not maybe someone in the house could say it was their kit?

I doubt that's legal, or ethical really. And I do appreciate that bankruptcy is a real tragedy for the individual (and his and her family), but it essentially means (and forgive me if I am wrong, and if I am I will make a full and gracious apology) that the person in question can no longer repay the people he/her/they have borrowed money from.

If the OP gains, then somebody else will have to pay. You may not be able identify them, you will undoubtedly not know their name, but pay they will.


A 60" Pioneer plasma doesn't come cheap. From RGB Direct, the current price of a PDP-LX608D is £4599.00.

Pioneer PDPLX608D 60 inch Plasma TV



I suspect that you are victim of the governments policy (the Labour government, that is), of extending credit as far as possible, and in doing so vastly inflating personal indebtedness, in an attempt to provide an illusion of prosperity in order to increase their political fortune, and promising an end to economic problems (no more boom and bust, etc.)

I think that hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions, of decent and hard working people believed them, and I suspect that you are one of them.


So, in many respects, I do have great sympathy for you, and I really do wish you well.


But I also have sympathy for those who will lose money due to your bankruptcy too.


But this troubles me:

Originally Posted by notfes53

Thanks for the thought, but the law is very strict on this point! If I make a false declaration and get found out - and it's really simple to get found out - when the Official Receiver goes through all my statements etc for the last few years, and sees that I purchased it on a 12-month interest-free loan that's in my credit history!

I think it is appalling that both government and banks fooled decent people into believing that luxury purchases on credit were a good, decent and normal thing.

I have been arguing this for years.

But I thought you stated that you owed this plasma outright? Have you paid the debt off, and in which case why are you worried about how you financed your purchase? If you own it then you own it.

Regardless, it remains an asset that other people who you owe money to can sell to alleviate their losses.


If you still have the funds to, then employ a solicitor. If you don't, then see the CAB.

If I were you, then I would expect to start afresh, from a clean slate. Bankruptcy might be just the tonic you require. Don't fear it, accept it as a liberation from your past, and look to the future.



Kind regards,

Damo


PS. sorry if I seemed harsh in parts, because I do really wish you well. I expect there to be thousands of stories similar to yours in the coming year, and the reason is government policy and stupid monetary policy (way too low interest rates, because Gordon swapped the measure from RPI to CPI, in part). But we too, as individuals, need to take our fair share of the blame.

[Iccz]

While it's easy to point the finger of blame at someone in debt, creditors over recent years have been far too happy to lend money to people out who they know can't afford it, and given the current financial climate people who may have been able to afford things might not be able to.

They will not be missing out.

At the end of the day you want to be able to keep as much as you can when you have to declare yourself bankrupt.





There's gonna be a lot of debt wiped out over the next few years espcially with unsecured loans and credit cards taken before certain dates as the contracts are unenforcable with certain places, Barclays and MBNA have both set money aside ready for this as they plan to settle out of court...



Back on topic, best of luck to OP on sorthing everything out.

[Ned Senior]

I was faced with similar problems very recently I suffer with stress and mental illness though and went to see social services telling them it was really making me depressed they put me in touch with the charity MIND who have an office near you probably.. The people at mind were great and averted (yes Stopped) the bankruptcy from being filed against me by one of my creditors and arranged for nominal sums to be paid to all creditors' every month
Bankruptcy I am told can cause severe stress and it is a myth that your debts are wiped out you will always be liable for the amounts paid untill they are clear

In about (x)000 years I will have repaid my debts!!

However If you are a business owing large sums rather than personal financial trouble it may be your only option

I wish you good luck

NOTE the CAB were useless and indeed advised bankruptcy in my case
which could have ended up with me spending months on a psychiatric ward with all the she hite that you find in such places waaaaaa!!!

[damo_in_sale]

Originally Posted by Iccz

While it's easy to point the finger of blame at someone in debt, creditors over recent years have been far too happy to lend money to people out who they know can't afford it, and given the current financial climate people who may have been able to afford things might not be able to.

I quite agree, at least in part I suppose. But I hope you realise that it was government policy to overexpose creditors, and overexpose debtors. The money supply (measure it by M2, M3 or M4) was grossly inflated in order to make today look great. But bugger tomorrow.


Mr. Browns policy was to extend credit to all, and at the cheapest cost. Make today look great (under his watch), and bugger the future.


Now we are all screwed, just as I warned.

[damo_in_sale]

Originally Posted by Iccz

While it's easy to point the finger of blame at someone in debt, creditors over recent years have been far too happy to lend money to people out who they know can't afford it, and given the current financial climate people who may have been able to afford things might not be able to.

I quite agree, at least in part I suppose. But I hope you realise that it was government policy to overexpose creditors, and overexpose debtors. The money supply (measure it by M2, M3 or M4) was grossly inflated in order to make today look great. But bugger tomorrow.


Mr. Browns policy was to extend credit to all, and at the cheapest cost. Make today look great (under his watch), and bugger the future.


Now we are all screwed, just as I warned.

[damo_in_sale]

May I ask, why did you buy a 60 inch plasma?

[notfes53]

Originally Posted by damo_in_sale

May I ask, why did you buy a 60 inch plasma?

It was the very best plasma available at the time, and it was covered by my annual bonus - and no. I don't work in the City, and I'm no "fat cat". I effectively traded up from the 506XDE which I sold with our last-house-but-one, togther with built-in speakers, amplification and cabling.

I was tempted by the offer of interest-free credit. In fact, I didn't even have to put down a deposit, and there was nothing to pay for 12 months.


Many others would be tempted. To add to this it was discounted by £500, and included a free 5-yr warranty. What was there to consider? (I jest!)

I was credit checked. Even though I probably owed over £100k at the time (60% on cards, and 40% on bank loans), I was still making all my minimum payments on time. It's really weird - as you probably know - If you don't have any credit, then you effectively don't have a credit history, and no-one will lend to you. I had loads of credit, and because, at that point, I could still meet the minimum payments, even if I sometimes borrowed more on one card to pay the others off, I had a credit score of 999 out of 1000 on one reputable credit scoring service.

I've never been "good with money".

Now, consider this - I am ashamed of what I have done, because, as you may gather, I do have a good intellect - but poor money sense. I hope that I've not truly hurt "anyone" apart from myself and my family, I only owe money to banks. Some of the cards are charging about 30% a.p.r. on my cash advances (e.g. MBNA - and none under 20%), and a hell of a lot of what I owe is simply interest on interest compounded many times over. And this at a time when the official bank rate is at it's lowest ever.

So spare a thought - for a moment - for whoever is getting VERY, VERY rich at my expense, and not who I am hurting. In fact my disposable income is being diverted to "greedy bankers" instead of into my local community, or the real economy of "you and me", and not the big bad banks.

I really don't deserve a high horse, so I'll come down off it now. I paid for the Plasma just before the due date 12 months from purchase, otherwise my plasma loan would have immediately soared to over £9,000 - yes, £4600 would have been added on to the loan account overnight! Just imagine if you'd forgotten when the due date was after 12 months?

So, where did the money come from to pay off this loan? From our house sale in July. It came from our equity, which is now all gone as I tried to do the decent thing over the last 5 months, and service all of my debt until all our equity ran dry and cards were maxed.

Can anyone tell me what "my" Pioneer PDP-LX608D is now worth? And whether the official receiver will sell it as an asset, and whether the OR will let me have something back from the sale to replace it, as it is my only television.

[johnny70]

Sorry to hear about your situation, I have been through what you are now

TBH I doubt very much that the OR will be interested in your TV or many of your other possessions, they are only interested in items of real value, antiques, paintings,cars etc. anything they can sell for plenty of money, a 2nd hand screen no matter what the purchase cost won't be worth anything at a auction. If you don't tell them about it, they won't know, they don't come around the house to see what they can sell, unless they have a strong belief that you are being fraudulant.

With the current climate, they are snowed under and if yours is a simple(to them) case then I would suspect it will be pretty straightforward and hassle free(as it can be)

Good luck, if you need ANY advice or help drop me a line

JOHNNY

[niceguy235uk]

Right or wrong, if it was me, and they haven't yet been round (if they do) or you have not yet declared any items, anything that wasnt screwed down would be boxed up and round a mates house.

Again all IMHO.

[mrapbp]

100% agree, also they dont really care all that much and from what I can gather dont go into all that much detail.

I think if you didnt mention it you would be unlikely to have anything happen and as below you could always 'sell' it to a mate.

Originally Posted by Epicurus

No way for the OR to know if you sold this piece of equipment prior to going bankrupt.

You were in financial difficulty, you sold it to try and remain solvent but ultimately it did you no good anyway.

See my point?

You seem like a good honest person which is why you deserve to hold onto a few things. Otherwise the whole process can seem a bit ruthless, and in many cases you don't deserve it.

[steptoe]

i saw a reality tv programme(beat the baliff ?) where the person found out from the baliffs which auction house they used and went along to bid for some of his belonings.good luck

[nvingo]

Swap it with a mates less valuable one, if that's taken your mate has gained, if not swap back when it's "blown over".

[kopchoir]

Originally Posted by notfes53

It was the very best plasma available at the time, and it was covered by my annual bonus - and no. I don't work in the City, and I'm no "fat cat". I effectively traded up from the 506XDE which I sold with our last-house-but-one, togther with built-in speakers, amplification and cabling.

I was tempted by the offer of interest-free credit. In fact, I didn't even have to put down a deposit, and there was nothing to pay for 12 months.


Many others would be tempted. To add to this it was discounted by £500, and included a free 5-yr warranty. What was there to consider? (I jest!)

I was credit checked. Even though I probably owed over £100k at the time (60% on cards, and 40% on bank loans), I was still making all my minimum payments on time. It's really weird - as you probably know - If you don't have any credit, then you effectively don't have a credit history, and no-one will lend to you. I had loads of credit, and because, at that point, I could still meet the minimum payments, even if I sometimes borrowed more on one card to pay the others off, I had a credit score of 999 out of 1000 on one reputable credit scoring service.

I've never been "good with money".

Now, consider this - I am ashamed of what I have done, because, as you may gather, I do have a good intellect - but poor money sense. I hope that I've not truly hurt "anyone" apart from myself and my family, I only owe money to banks. Some of the cards are charging about 30% a.p.r. on my cash advances (e.g. MBNA - and none under 20%), and a hell of a lot of what I owe is simply interest on interest compounded many times over. And this at a time when the official bank rate is at it's lowest ever.

So spare a thought - for a moment - for whoever is getting VERY, VERY rich at my expense, and not who I am hurting. In fact my disposable income is being diverted to "greedy bankers" instead of into my local community, or the real economy of "you and me", and not the big bad banks.

I really don't deserve a high horse, so I'll come down off it now. I paid for the Plasma just before the due date 12 months from purchase, otherwise my plasma loan would have immediately soared to over £9,000 - yes, £4600 would have been added on to the loan account overnight! Just imagine if you'd forgotten when the due date was after 12 months?

So, where did the money come from to pay off this loan? From our house sale in July. It came from our equity, which is now all gone as I tried to do the decent thing over the last 5 months, and service all of my debt until all our equity ran dry and cards were maxed.

Can anyone tell me what "my" Pioneer PDP-LX608D is now worth? And whether the official receiver will sell it as an asset, and whether the OR will let me have something back from the sale to replace it, as it is my only television.

You dont need to be all apologetic matey its not like you killed anyone you just simply mad some mistakes and are like me rubbish with cash its not a bad thing and you should not be ashamed either whats done is done, you now must make sure it never happens again and learn to be beteer with money now box that tv up and send it round to your mates with any other high end equipment you own
if your mate wont accept it send it to me
now as with regards to value of your tv second hand units are now less attractive even with a tv of your spec and size they are falling in price rapidly if you want to sell it try the classifieds here if you wanna keep it send it to your mates

oh and good luck as another poster has said dont let it get to you and i hope you have a peacefull christmas

[Dony]

My brother used to work for the Insolvency service about 7/8 yrs ago. At the time I wasn't as much into AV as I am now, but on a monthly basis he would ask me if I wanted to buy a Plasma from the OR. It seems that Plasma's were considered to have a sell on value (albeit when they were more expensive to buy then, though your's is top of the range).

I wish you all the best, but would advise you to speak with a good solicitor who will be able to give you better advise than any of us can.

All the best.

[Inked]

I was declared Bankrupt around 7 years ago and just wanted to wish you all the best for the future, I know it looks pretty bleak now but I'm sure you will come out of it stronger.

[johntheexpat]

Is it just me or is this a distinctly worrying thread? The OP readily admits that while well educated, went rather mad with credit that he couldn't afford and now has to pay the price. And then we have a whole load of people coming in promoting fraud on the Official Receiver and blatant law breaking. Throw in some politics for good measure, just to muddy the waters and blame the Government for the individuals lack of judgement.
Sorry, but fraud, any kind of fraud, hurts us all. Not much in this case, but throw in thousands and thousands of other similar cases and the pain on all of us starts to mount.
It reminds me of the NatWest 3. They were crooks, but because the City perceived it as relatively small scale, they became local heros to the City types. Well sorry and all that but they robbed everyone in the country. It may only have been 10 or 20p from everyone but it was from everyone, because one way or another we all had shares in companies that lost out to them so we all lost. Simple really.
Notfes33, its never good, the road you've inadvertently ended up on, but you are in deep trouble and any attempt at fraud or whatever from here on in would be hugely dangerous to your liberty. Play a straight game and then at least at the end of it all you will be able to hold your head up and say you made a mistake, but did the right thing. Then re-build.

It seems to me that one of the big problems with the UK is that almost everyone seems to think that some degree of cheating, fraud, 'bucking the system', hypocrisy,or downright law breaking is tolerable, acceptable or even necessary. Trust is such an old fashioned word, because it really isn't a part of 21st Century UK living. And that is what is fundamentally wrong with the UK. IMHO

End of rant.

Merry christmas to you all.

[gavan]

I think there are going to be a lot of people in a similar boat soon. Seems to have been a collective madness on the part of borrowers and lenders.


Also, it has consequences for the development of new technologies and gear. With a lot less buyers and much tighter purse strings I don't think that we'll see anything like the pace of technological advance in home entertainment from the manufacturers. Good quality AV gear will go from being affordable mass market back to expensive luxury.

Still, being selfish every cloud has a silver lining and there are some great prices out there now. I would guess that prices will go up for AV gear next year (see the recent Sony announcement for an example) but right now retailers are trying to convert their existing stocks to cash so there are great bargains to be had. I'm about to splash out for a new amp and DVD recorder despite the fact that what I'm replacing works perfectly well and has done for about 6 or 7 years.

PS: I don't want to be insensitive but does anyone know how the ORs go about selling the goods they take? Might be a few bargains to be had.

[Desmo]

Originally Posted by johntheexpat

It seems to me that one of the big problems with the UK is that almost everyone seems to think that some degree of cheating, fraud, 'bucking the system', hypocrisy,or downright law breaking is tolerable, acceptable or even necessary. Trust is such an old fashioned word, because it really isn't a part of 21st Century UK living. And that is what is fundamentally wrong with the UK.

Agree with pretty much all you have said...but is it any wonder people think like this when we see those at the top, those in charge, those running the country doing the same thing and getting away with it?

[johntheexpat]

Originally Posted by Desmo

Agree with pretty much all you have said...but is it any wonder people think like this when we see those at the top, those in charge, those running the country doing the same thing and getting away with it?

Or do those at the top do it because they think the scummy little oicks like me would never do anything about it? Perhaps its time to start a grass roots revolution against this kind of thing. Every incident of cheating, fraud, lying, theft, dishonesty, hypocrisy etc should be brought out into the open and forcibly condemned. But its the likes of you and me that will have to generate a groundswell of opinion, because those in power and the wealthy are never going to upset their cosy little gravy train. Well, I'm sure some will, but I've been around long enough to know that most people won't jeopardize their cushy lives to criticise those around them.
Private Eye is always full of the most astonishing examples of corruption and abuse of power, rarely gets sued because it is mostly spot on and achieves nothing because nobody actually cares.

Well, its damned well time to start caring.

[Suave]

Originally Posted by Desmo

Agree with pretty much all you have said...but is it any wonder people think like this when we see those at the top, those in charge, those running the country doing the same thing and getting away with it?

Hi,

Hit the nail dead centre on the head - The British establishment run by those in power or influence have always been collusory and corrupt - over the centuries this has permeated itself across every single area of influence there is one rule for those at the top and another for everyone else.

Suave!