[doodles]

The government has been accused of trampling on individual liberties by proposing wide-ranging new powers for bailiffs to break into homes and to use “reasonable force” against householders who try to protect their valuables.
Bailiffs get power to use force on debtors - Times Online

[Suave]

Hi,

Is this crap legal under EU Law? The sooner this government is booted out of office, the better - we will become a police state next.

Suave!

[Reign-Mack]

makes you wonder since I have also had somebody use my address

[mrapbp]

Does that mean that individuals can use reasonable force to stop them?

Seriously this isn't heading in a good direction, is it really a good idea to allow these people these kinds of powers? Who says their judgement is on the mark, do they undergo months/years of training that allows the police to get that wrong??

[Miyazaki]

We are allowed to use reasonable and proportionate force to protect our homes.

I bet we will see bailiffs killed if they attempt this.

[eric pisch]

my biggest worry is on the whole how shoddy and pig headed bailiffs are, and how little leg work they do.

I have had several cases where they got it wrong and recently they came after me for a huge debt the previous owner of my house had run up, the couldn't even be bothered to check the electoral role and it took me 4 months of receiving legal threats and me threatening to call the police on them before they actually bothered to check that I was who I said I was. t***s

[Ultima]

Originally Posted by eric pisch

my biggest worry is on the whole how shoddy and pig headed bailiffs are, and how little leg work they do.

I have had several cases where they got it wrong and recently they came after me for a huge debt the previous owner of my house had run up, the couldn't even be bothered to check the electoral role and it took me 4 months of receiving legal threats and me threatening to call the police on them before they actually bothered to check that I was who I said I was. t***s

We had a similar situation when we moved into our house. The previous owner was up to his eyes in debt and we had numerous visits from Bailiffs who use threats as easily as every day conversation. Funnily, I actually enjoyed the banter with these muppets who found that they definately weren't stepping one foot into my house and if they tried they new what to expect.

To be honest they are only carrying out their orders but to give these powers to a type of person whose common sense and judgement skills are questionable seems ludicrous.

[Naaktgeboren]

I have to agree with all said. When we first arrived in the UK, 3 days after we moved in there was a knock on the door at 6am by a bailiff for unpaid council tax for the previous owner. I was not very happy as I had my son crying and my wife very scared not knowing what was going on. I opened the door and made it pretty clear to him that if he did not disappear quick or attempted to enter my house, he would be leaving horizontal.

He knew I was not bluffing so went back to his van and phoned the police AND spent the next 20 mins shouting threats from his van at me

Police arrived, checked his paperwork, looked at my passport and told the cretin that OBVIOUSLY we were not the people he was looking for and told him to GTFO.

Stupid **** for brained fool could of done this himself but was relying on the fear factor like I bet he uses on a daily basis against old folk and single mothers.

[mjn]

Some don't even have the balls to knock on the door, (the previous owner of our house ran off to Crypus leaving a pile of debts) they just put little business cards through our letterbox, and expect you to pay up. Losers, the lot of them.

[PoochJD]

Morning,

Yet another crap piece of crap legislation, for people who are - in my opinion only - nothing more than legalised thugs!

I love the following quotes from the article however:

"... new powers for bailiffs to break into homes and to use “reasonable force” against householders who try to protect their valuables..."

And remind me again what constitutes "reasonable force"?!

"Under the regulations, bailiffs for private firms would for the first time be given permission to restrain or pin down householders. They would also be able to force their way into homes to seize property to pay off debts, such as unpaid credit card bills and loans."

I may only be small, and weedy, as far as my size and build go, but if any bailiff tries to "restrain or pin down" me, they are going to be on the receiving end of the nearest sharp, pointy object to their body, face and/or genitals!

"Ministers have now proposed bailiffs be given powers to physically remove debtors who try to defend their property, for example by draping themselves over a car or blocking the door of their home."

How long before we start seeing large numbers of dead or severely injured bailiffs then, who have "draped themselves" over a debtors vehicle?! Not long, I can assure you.

"Lord Bach, a junior justice minister, has assured the House of Lords that any new powers will be implemented only after a consultation..."

And, of course, government "consultations" are always conducted with the public interests, as a priority, aren't they?!

"Reasonable grounds for breaking down the door include the “movement of a curtain”, a radio being heard or a figure being spotted inside which “may be the offender”."

Yes. And, "resonable grounds" for me smacking your bloody face in with a baseball bat, will be the fact that you saw my cat move one of my curtains, broke down my door, because you stupidly assumed that that curtain movement, meant I was actually holed-up inside trying to evade you!

Bailiff: it's just the Latin term meaning "law-enforcement arsehole"!


Pooch

[SimonH]

My experience of bayliffs was that they were absolute proof of evolution.

About half a brain cell away from an aemoba , and their aptitude for reasoning and common sense was about on par with a piece of play-do.

Allowing what amounts to dial-a-thug, failed army types to have free reign to commit violent acts against residents is possibly the stupidest move I've ever heard.

bailiffs for private firms would for the first time be given permission to restrain or pin down householders.

If the above isn't a recipe for absolute abuse of power , I don't know what it is.

God this government is retarded at times.

[stepneg]

Knowing how scum like Rossendales operate this is bad news, they intimidate and threaten people already and soon they will be able to rough people up knowing the law is on their side! They are nothing more than hired thugs who I'm sure earn commission for heaping on extra charges and recovering the debt as quickly as possible. Giving these sort of idiots the power to just kick doors in and restrain people is absurd and it won't take long before someone ends up dead.

[eric pisch]

Originally Posted by Ultima

We had a similar situation when we moved into our house. The previous owner was up to his eyes in debt and we had numerous visits from Bailiffs who use threats as easily as every day conversation. Funnily, I actually enjoyed the banter with these muppets who found that they definately weren't stepping one foot into my house and if they tried they new what to expect.

To be honest they are only carrying out their orders but to give these powers to a type of person whose common sense and judgement skills are questionable seems ludicrous.

but now you will come home from work to find they have kicked your door in, taken all your stuff and auctioned it for 10% of its value.

why even bother making contact

[Ultima]

Originally Posted by eric pisch

but now you will come home from work to find they have kicked your door in, taken all your stuff and auctioned it for 10% of its value.

why even bother making contact

True......good job I work 2 minutes from home and have my alarm ring my mobile phone should it be activated.

[Wild Weasel]

A friend of mine went to view a repossessed house once and found the place was like the Marie Celeste. The baliffs had obviously come at dinner time, because there were plates of partially eaten meals out on the table.

[Suave]

Hi,

Unfortunately, I can see a lot of elderly people dying from either the shock or stress from this kind of crap. Truth is, these people will always break in a property from now on the pretence that they heard something inside or the curtains move etc. I really hope that this is illegal under EU law and this very sad excuse of a government be forced to retract this legislation.

Suave!

[neilios]

So we're in a recession and they give powers to baliffs to crash through your door if the curtain twitches ,**** me ,maybe i ought to go round to lord bach's house kick his door in ,give the silly pencil neck a slap ,and then apologise for entering the wrong house .

First we have this silly goverment mudering people in an illegal war ,now they want to kick our doors in ,oh dear ,so much for democracy ,these lot should be hung for the damage they have done to the country .

[mooperman]

sounds very dodge to me, bailiffs are total scum in my opinion. When is this likely to come into effect?

[Loftusrd1980]

Sometimes (most times) this goverment difies belief.

Like everybody else has said, what about the times and there are many that they get the wrong person.

I have had a few letters through the door for a previous tenant living at my current property who plainly owes money I can just imagine some meat head trying to come oin to my property demanding payment.

And for them to be able use reasonable force I presume reasonable force in my favour would be the right to protect my property, valuables with a baseball bat

[Import racer]

As someone mentioned the uk is looking more like a police state every week

And i have a few stories that i won't go into.

The actual bailiffs are n't all that bad,

They only enforce the law and courts decision
And no i'm not a bailiff.

Just pay the bills or give them something and just keep in contact with them and no doors need to be kicked in.

Saying all that they are a slightly devious lot though.

[Naaktgeboren]

Originally Posted by Import racer

As someone mentioned the uk is looking more like a police state every week

And i have a few stories that i won't go into.

The actual bailiffs are n't all that bad,

They only enforce the law and courts decision
And no i'm not a bailiff.

Just pay the bills or give them something and just keep in contact with them and no doors need to be kicked in.

Saying all that they are a slightly devious lot though.

Not that bad?? They are clueless ape's at best.

They lack the ability to use common sense and are borderline criminals who will lie and fabricate the truth to meet their need.

And please don't get me started on their fee's.....

Like many have said, it won't be long before some ape of a bailiff tries to enter the wrong house and gets killed.

There will obviously be mistakes where the said clueless ape's have the wrong address (like they did in my case) If they had of forced entry on my property early in the morning, like I already said, they would of been drinking soup for month's after.

Funny thing is If they enter the wrong house and get assaulted, the homeowner could not be prosecuted as the bailiff should not have been there in the first place

[mooperman]

Originally Posted by Import racer

As someone mentioned the uk is looking more like a police state every week

And i have a few stories that i won't go into.

The actual bailiffs are n't all that bad,

They only enforce the law and courts decision
And no i'm not a bailiff.

Just pay the bills or give them something and just keep in contact with them and no doors need to be kicked in.

Saying all that they are a slightly devious lot though.

speaking from experience i can tell you thats not enough, have been dealing with an old council tax bill myself (yes i know, but got myself into trouble and am working well to get myself out of it!) and worked out all my wages and bills, sorted water company (they are happy!) sorted lekky company (very happy) spoke to bailiffs - NOPE, not happy we will send someone round to list your goods and charge you £120 for the benefit, i say "no need im happy to negotiate over the phone" - "nope sorry, you MUST have a visit" ( at £120 which she doesnt mention in the chat) im told, so i tell em to balls and looked up the current facts, now ive got the council happy again (lekky and water paid off!) and they are still harrassing me over the ****in bill... Bailiffs are lying scum who will lie, cheat and steal there way to your money regardless of the facts. If any of them try to come through my door they are in for a long stay in the hosipital i can tell you!!

Just to add to the chap who said they banged him up at 6am-ish, thats not allowed, the bailiff must come between reasonable hours which are (i think!) 7am - 8pm Mon - Sat, they are not allowed to call on Sundays. Im sure he didnt tell you this though!

[supahoops]

Apart from the electoral register is there any other way of removing other peoples names associated to a property?

I still get plenty of letters / demands for outstanding debt. from the tennants that used to rent my property and id rather not have a meathead turn up demanding payment from someone who moved out 3 1/2 years ago!

[PoochJD]

Hi Supahoops,

I just write the following on any mail meant for previous tenant(s) and eventually the companies concerned get the message. All you need to write is:

"Stop sending me this crap immediately! The person you want no longer lives here! Now, bugger off!" (Or something equally astounding! )


Pooch

[Suave]

Hi,

Why do we as a people and electorate allow this and similar actions to happen to our citizens? At every turn and point it seems our rights are being eroded away and we just accept draconian and authoritarian actions against us. Every time we allow this to happen, the government pushes the boundary further each time under some guise to suit its aims. What will it take before we say enough is enough and furthermore, do we have it in us? I was under the impression that being a part of the EU might be a good thing as each national government would be forced to adhere to certain standards and be answerable if they did not - it seems the complete opposite is true with ours.

Suave!

[Mac Man]

Boy there's some angry people on here....

But as someone who has been on the other side of the fence ie trying to recover money from lying, cheating, thieving little scumbag toerag pieces of dog excrement, I'd like to ask what suggestions anybody has as to an alternative to the bailiffs?

My wife lost £1800 in outstanding rent last year - which will never be seen again and my own business has lost £6k to an equally undeserving merchant.

Some of these people play the system BIG TIME and know just exactly what they can get a way with. The rent dodger, in particular, left a string of bad debts in her wake including council tax, phone bills, catalogue bills, utilities. She's moved on to do it all again to some other unsuspecting mug(s).

The real scum are the people who are knowingly getting away with this crap. If we didn't have thieving scum we wouldn't need bailiffs.

[Ultima]

Originally Posted by Mac Man

Boy there's some angry people on here....

But as someone who has been on the other side of the fence ie trying to recover money from lying, cheating, thieving little scumbag toerag pieces of dog excrement, I'd like to ask what suggestions anybody has as to an alternative to the bailiffs?

My wife lost £1800 in outstanding rent last year - which will never be seen again and my own business has lost £6k to an equally undeserving merchant.

Some of these people play the system BIG TIME and know just exactly what they can get a way with. The rent dodger, in particular, left a string of bad debts in her wake including council tax, phone bills, catalogue bills, utilities. She's moved on to do it all again to some other unsuspecting mug(s).

The real scum are the people who are knowingly getting away with this crap. If we didn't have thieving scum we wouldn't need bailiffs.

It's not the collection of money owed that's the problem.....of course people should pay their bills It's the government giving half a brain meatheads the right to go smashing into peoples homes (that's assuming they get the right address) that's the problem.

[Naaktgeboren]

Originally Posted by Mac Man

Boy there's some angry people on here....

But as someone who has been on the other side of the fence ie trying to recover money from lying, cheating, thieving little scumbag toerag pieces of dog excrement, I'd like to ask what suggestions anybody has as to an alternative to the bailiffs?

My wife lost £1800 in outstanding rent last year - which will never be seen again and my own business has lost £6k to an equally undeserving merchant.

Some of these people play the system BIG TIME and know just exactly what they can get a way with. The rent dodger, in particular, left a string of bad debts in her wake including council tax, phone bills, catalogue bills, utilities. She's moved on to do it all again to some other unsuspecting mug(s).

The real scum are the people who are knowingly getting away with this crap. If we didn't have thieving scum we wouldn't need bailiffs.

I rent property also, sounds like you had a private agreement in this case which is always a little more risky. As for loosing 1.8k in rent... How much was the monthly rent? I would never let any tenant fall behind at such amounts, did you even loose 1.8k taking into consideration your tenants deposit??

I think a lot of this is down to risk. I always minimize the risk by painstaking research and references, not just the crap that a supplier will throw in front of you to get the business. I go out and talk to existing customers and will even go as far as arranging a credit report IF the numbers are high enough.

I simply would not give a tenancy to a first time buyer nor would I give a contract to a new face on the block for business.

It's a shame but you have to change strategy to meet economic conditions right now.

** edit **

Another thing I would mention.... I am not saying that there should not be people to assist in recovering monies owed but, the current 'apes' that go about the job are nothing more than bully boy thugs. With great power comes great responsibility and we all know just how well they will be regulated if these ridiculous powers come into force.

[Epicurus]

This defies belief, thank you for posting the article.

There are so many dangers to this I can't believe it ever made it to draft.

You have the overly aggressive bailiff types who wil jump at the chance to cook up a story as to why "reasonable" force was necessary. We will see doors broken down regardless of if anyone is home, and goods removed. Then if innocent a lengthy civil battle ensues to get your stuff back.


The other side of the coin is to never underestimate the empowering effect of feeling like your home is threatened. It's akint o feeling your life is in danger or one of your loved ones is being threatened. We would see lots of reports where bailiffs were maimed, wounded or even killed as a result.

Just shockingly poor government planning yet again.

[supahoops]

Originally Posted by PoochJD

Hi Supahoops,

I just write the following on any mail meant for previous tenant(s) and eventually the companies concerned get the message. All you need to write is:

"Stop sending me this crap immediately! The person you want no longer lives here! Now, bugger off!" (Or something equally astounding! )


Pooch

Ive tried sending these debt. payment demand letters back but having spoken to a Postie mate i was told that returned letters with stuff like "not known at this address" just get thrown in the bin because companies will continue to send these letters out and in turn give Royal Mail more business.

Some of the debts are over 10K! Dont know what id do if i came home and found all my AV gear had been swiped. Im hoping they atleast inform you when they are coming round rather than just turning up and smashing the door down if there's no answer or no curtain twtching!