[Westindieman]

Have any of you guys any experience of Computeach or companies that offer what they do? One of the guys in my office has one of their reps visiting him tonight and I have pre-warned him that its not all its cracked up to be.
I went through this same process a couple of years back and was made to feel that I was one of the select few that they would accept. I remember talking to a friend I had who runs his own IT business who said there wasnt as many positions available as these companies make out and its not as easy to get work as they say. I didnt go through with it.

[Alun]

I started a computeach course several years back, although family issues prevented me from completing it, I did the first 3 or 4 assignments, got fantastic results (bit of own trumpet blowing here) and found the on-line course tutors and mentors to be there and helpful when required.

I do know that it culminated in a week long residential 'networking' session where all the job oppurtunties were laid before you. I seem to remember them pretty much guaranteeing you a job, but that could have been tea boy or something.

Not sure I'd go back to them

[Iccz]

Originally Posted by Westindieman

Have any of you guys any experience of Computeach or companies that offer what they do? One of the guys in my office has one of their reps visiting him tonight and I have pre-warned him that its not all its cracked up to be.
I went through this same process a couple of years back and was made to feel that I was one of the select few that they would accept. I remember talking to a friend I had who runs his own IT business who said there wasnt as many positions available as these companies make out and its not as easy to get work as they say. I didnt go through with it.

I did my CCNA via SkillsTrain they were very helpful, sent all the material needed, had dedicated call lines when I needed any help, went to a week class for hands on experience then the exam, our whole class (15 or so people) failed the exam, you get free retests if you take it within a certain number of days.

Obviously a certification will not guarantee you a job in a field, experience is a key factor, but it sure helps to take a course. Problem is qualifications are becoming more and more common and the number of jobs is going down, so obviously you cant be guaranteed a position on the basis of a certification.

Generally they're not too bad for going through, expensive if you have to pay yourself, but all in all they do provide a good service.
Usually if you can get a company to pay for it, its a lot better, and they will often send you on retakes every so often to keep you up to date.

[emporer]

I have considered things such as this but imo the market is totally over saturated now, too many people and not enough jobs!!

[t1nt1n]

Hmm, I'm just getting out. IT isn't all it's cracked up to be and I would say only go for it if you really like IT. There aren't as many jobs as people make out, sorry.

[eric pisch]

Originally Posted by t1nt1n

Hmm, I'm just getting out. IT isn't all it's cracked up to be and I would say only go for it if you really like IT. There aren't as many jobs as people make out, sorry.

Going to be alot worse when BSF is finished and the 30,000 odd network managers and a fair few 000s technicians are out of work as well

[DVD-Man]

Originally Posted by eric pisch

Going to be alot worse when BSF is finished and the 30,000 odd network managers and a fair few 000s technicians are out of work as well

What is BSF where you come from?

Liam

[ufitsy]

Originally Posted by DVD-Man

What is BSF where you come from?

Liam

I guess its schools for the future

http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/managem...dbuilding/bsf/

[itsamac]

Originally Posted by t1nt1n

Hmm, I'm just getting out. IT isn't all it's cracked up to be and I would say only go for it if you really like IT. There aren't as many jobs as people make out, sorry.

I agree. IT is not the cash cow it used to be. I am still in IT as I enjoy it and that would be my advice, do a job you really enjoy and let the rest fall into play. You will excel in a role you enjoy rather than one that just pays the bills.

Just my 2p

[SeanT]

You DO need to be good at it. You DON'T need any qualifications to get in if you are good. So don't bother doing the quals if you can't pick it up and run with it....

[Iccz]

Originally Posted by SeanT

You DO need to be good at it. You DON'T need any qualifications to get in if you are good. So don't bother doing the quals if you can't pick it up and run with it....

You DO need the opportunity to prove yourself.



And getting that is the hard part.

[TameRacingDriver]

Originally Posted by eric pisch

Going to be alot worse when BSF is finished and the 30,000 odd network managers and a fair few 000s technicians are out of work as well

The schools will still need someone there to support all of the equipment they are putting in, though. I can't see that many jobs being lost after its implementation.

Incidentally, I agree that IT is a pretty rubbish industry to get into, particularly now... although it depends on where you go and whether your face fits. I've been in my job for 9 years and there are no prospects for me, yet I've seen others come in, who are bordering on incompetent, and have already had promotions and payrises, which is really funny, I dont think

If you can get into such a place (think, council), and you are good at brown nosing or have the kind of face that managers like, then maybe you will go far without much effort If you are anything like me, not afraid to speak your mind and refuse to be trodden on, then good luck, you'll need it!

Personally I strongly recommend another career.

[andykn]

Originally Posted by pbirkett

If you can get into such a place (think, council), and you are good at brown nosing or have the kind of face that managers like, then maybe you will go far without much effort If you are anything like me, not afraid to speak your mind and refuse to be trodden on, then good luck, you'll need it!

Personally I strongly recommend another career.

Other careers are the same. You're better off being at the bottom of the heap doing something you enjoy.

[FaxFan2002]

I must be the only person on this forum who enjoys being in IT - true I've had ups and downs (before anyone posts a link to me hating IT) - but overall it has been pretty good and you get decent recognition for doing a good job. Sometimes you have to do a bit of brown nosing and do things you don't agree with because business decisions sometimes dictate that.

And trust me, get into the right places and it can be a real cash cow

[mjn]

Originally Posted by pbirkett

If you are anything like me, not afraid to speak your mind and refuse to be trodden on, then good luck, you'll need it.

Know where you're coming from there.

[KhalJimbo]

Hmmm I do agree with alot of whats is being said on here, only do IT if you really really enjoy it, when you see the adds on TV quoting 37k to be the average IT salary dont believe it, the first job and starting will only be about 15k but having said that hard work and determination can go along way there are still many many jobs going for 60 even 70 +, but if its real money he is after contracting is the way forward, but what sector does you buddy want to get into, Programming, Networking, Databases? The most secure/paying jobs are the ones in programming, anyway I seemed to have strayed abit from the topic, I enrolled to do a course with SkillsTrain and after 3 weeks decided that the whole home learning thing was not for me so I went to a college instead to do the same course, when I phoned skills train to tell them I am not studying with them anymore after only 3 weeks, they refused to listen to me and said that I still need to pay for the full course (£100 a month for 3 years) that to me was abosolutely rediculous they havent had a singal test paper in from me nothing not a singal phone call, email or letter to a tutor nothing and still demand that I pay them. In my opinion tell your friend to rather go to his local college for a night course (there are plenty that are only 2 hours a night for a bout 6 months or so) but passion is a big thing in IT alot of it is mindless repetative tasks but if you like you wont mind, and in alot of companies eyes experience and willingness is more important than a piece of paper stating a qualification.

[KhalJimbo]

Originally Posted by itsamac

I agree. IT is not the cash cow it used to be. I am still in IT as I enjoy it and that would be my advice, do a job you really enjoy and let the rest fall into play. You will excel in a role you enjoy rather than one that just pays the bills.

Just my 2p

Get in the right company do the right thing, and trust me its a real cash cow

[Iccz]

Originally Posted by jimthelegend

Get in the right company do the right thing, and trust me its a real cash cow

I think he meant in a more general term, not too many years ago any job in IT was seen as a well paying high prospective job, now most jobs are seen as just another IT job.

[KhalJimbo]

Originally Posted by Iccz

I think he meant in a more general term, not too many years ago any job in IT was seen as a well paying high prospective job, now most jobs are seen as just another IT job.

Oh I totally agree, my first IT job only paid me 11k and that was only 2 years ago, but there are still people out there willing to give you a fat paycheck but they do work you for it.

[Iccz]

I'm debating wether I should gracefully bow out of the IT industry and look into something else, i've been 5 years in IT now and i'm not totally sure I fully enjoy it, i'd love to get into home theatre installation and such, but that's something which there doesn't seem to be much of around here at the moment.

[eric pisch]

Originally Posted by Iccz

I'm debating wether I should gracefully bow out of the IT industry and look into something else, i've been 5 years in IT now and i'm not totally sure I fully enjoy it, i'd love to get into home theatre installation and such, but that's something which there doesn't seem to be much of around here at the moment.

been doing it 20 years and it was great, suxs now and its getting worse, managed services are the death of IT imo, all they need are people who can read a script and some one who can drive and change a hard drive.

wish i had the skill to become a paramedic

[andykn]

Originally Posted by Iccz

I'm debating wether I should gracefully bow out of the IT industry and look into something else, i've been 5 years in IT now and i'm not totally sure I fully enjoy it, i'd love to get into home theatre installation and such, but that's something which there doesn't seem to be much of around here at the moment.

There's no money in that at all. As an IT contractor I can earn about as much as my two friends combined doing AV installs. There can be money in it if you can get work Crestron or AMX programming.

[Iccz]

Originally Posted by andykn

There's no money in that at all. As an IT contractor I can earn about as much as my two friends combined doing AV installs. There can be money in it if you can get work Crestron or AMX programming.

The problem with IT is it's all a load of IF's, IF you can get this, IF you can get to work in certain areas.
I know i'm still young and i've not been in IT for a long time, but already i'm starting to question wether I really want to carry on as I am then 5-10 years down the line be regretting it, then again the same could be said if I go to something else now.

I just find right now with the current job/situations it's not really helping me want to stay in the field, sure the pay is better than other jobs I could get but the enjoyment is really low.

[TameRacingDriver]

Originally Posted by Iccz

The problem with IT is it's all a load of IF's, IF you can get this, IF you can get to work in certain areas.
I know i'm still young and i've not been in IT for a long time, but already i'm starting to question wether I really want to carry on as I am then 5-10 years down the line be regretting it, then again the same could be said if I go to something else now.

I just find right now with the current job/situations it's not really helping me want to stay in the field, sure the pay is better than other jobs I could get but the enjoyment is really low.

If you arent sure you enjoy it, you probably dont. Dont make the same mistake I have. I am potentially you, 5-10 years down the line, getting rubbish pay in a job that is "comfortable", but boring and completely disorganised. What skill I did have rotted away in a simple support role, and I aint good at anything else, and am in debt.

Dont repeat my mistake.

[sue_hall]

Evening,

Forgot those ads on telly promising 37k as soon as you pass their training courses and proclaiming IT to be a quick cash cow, it aint going to happen. Just about every company looking for IT staff out there nowadays look for someone with years of experience first.

There's a million MSCE's or CCNA's out there who have just passed their exam by cramming it, and good for them. But put them into a real world situation which is happening there and then and wasn't in their text books and they have no idea how to handle it.

And companies know this now as they have been burnt / lost money and service due to it before. So they look for experience first. The number of jobs asking for definite MS cert etc has dropped consistantly over the last 5 years or so.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with computeach etc, in all honesty I've never used them. If they teach the course as should be then you'll learn things like standard practice (though IT never follows it sadly), but you'll still need the experience to back it up. I do though know that they take ages to teach you and cost a fortune and you could do the same course at a local college for a 10th of the price.

My advice is that if your set on somone like computeach, then get a lowly IT job like on a servicedesk (you'll earn between 11k and 15k) and while doing that do your certs that the training company are offering. That way you start gaining the experience from day one. Yes, you'll not earn much money, but by the time you complete your cert, you'll have experience and the cert to move to the next level which is something like a IT Analyst / Desktop support / junior Server engineer which will pay at present rates about 25k

At that point you should really start specialising. That's the trick with IT once you have some decent experience, find skills which are needed but rare and gain a captive market.

I've done so myself, and today after 15 years slogging and about 50k on training courses (telephony related at the companies themselves - Genesys, Aspect, Nortel, Avaya, Cisco and others) i landed a job paying 65k and a final salary pension + other perks like 50% performance related bonus etc.

However as you can see it took me a lot of years hard work and slog and a lot of money (my own) on training and looking at the market and judging where to put my skills. There's nothing saying that in 3 years time my market won't be saturated (like Microsoft etc) and I'll have to train in other things.

Rob

[andykn]

Originally Posted by pbirkett

If you arent sure you enjoy it, you probably dont. Dont make the same mistake I have. I am potentially you, 5-10 years down the line, getting rubbish pay in a job that is "comfortable", but boring and completely disorganised. What skill I did have rotted away in a simple support role, and I aint good at anything else, and am in debt.

Dont repeat my mistake.

All good advice. I enjoy what I do, the money's a bonus. I still play with computers in my spare time. Iccz, if you stay in because you might earn good money in a few years but don't enjoy it, you might be better off in another field. My friends in the AV install business still earn a reasonable wage - one confessed to me recently that he'd be quite happy if they got a steady stream of work for 3 weeks out of 4.

[Iccz]

Originally Posted by andykn

All good advice. I enjoy what I do, the money's a bonus. I still play with computers in my spare time. Iccz, if you stay in because you might earn good money in a few years but don't enjoy it, you might be better off in another field. My friends in the AV install business still earn a reasonable wage - one confessed to me recently that he'd be quite happy if they got a steady stream of work for 3 weeks out of 4.

Yeah, the only thing that gets me is I loved it until a few months ago when we picked up a bad but big contract, and i've been treated like dirt on this one to get nothing extra from it, a very small bonus and no rise. I wouldn't mind if the same applied to everyone else, but I know others have been given more and have done less than me, i've been the one travelling all over the place at short notice flying about and driving hundreds of miles (the petrol being my only gain financially apart from my salary)
I know i'm being done over here and thats what's finally making me want to bail.

Part of me knows if I hold out this will all pass and it might go back to how it was when I enjoyed it or maybe i'm just ready to find something else.
I'm not lazy or anything it's just never nice to see people around you getting benefits, raises, other forms of praise etc, when you're the one dropping everything to run around the country and go to other countries at the last minute all for the companies gain.

I think what everyone has said here is totally right, especially about all the Cisco and Microsoft Certifications and no experience.

If you want to get into IT you need to understand that it's not all that it's advertised to be and it's not an easy ride for lots of money, but if you get yourself in the right place (at the right time) then you can get an enjoyable job with lots of career prospects.
And sometimes you have to take the bad with the good. No job will be an easy ride all the time.

[KhalJimbo]

Is it IT you dont like or is it you current situation you dont like? What line of IT are you in?

[Iccz]

Originally Posted by jimthelegend

Is it IT you dont like or is it you current situation you dont like? What line of IT are you in?

Currently in software engineering/programming, though i'm pretty much 'oddjob' to my bosses so it seems as im pretty much in charge of the servers and network here and on sites (we're a small company). But I like the fact I have variation in my day, and can sit on AVF
Maybe I should just try get a job doing one set thing, where I know what's what and where I actually stand.
The good thing about this is the freedom when things are not so hectic, but lately i've had so much work.

Loved my 2 jobs before this but left both because of pay, Computer Repair/Refurb and Network Engineer (mostly cable bashing in schools and offices).

One of these things, i'll ride it out see how it goes, i'm still young (23) and I don't want to rush into leaving a job/field and then regret it down the line, but at the same time I don't want to be stuck in it regretting it...

(apologies for unintentionally hijacking the thread)

[TylerDurden]

Originally Posted by pbirkett

If you arent sure you enjoy it, you probably dont. Dont make the same mistake I have. I am potentially you, 5-10 years down the line, getting rubbish pay in a job that is "comfortable", but boring and completely disorganised. What skill I did have rotted away in a simple support role, and I aint good at anything else, and am in debt.

I'm in a similar situation as you, been in IT (programming) for over 10 years, the job doesn't really inspire me anymore, the pay (for what I do) is OK (£30K +) I'd love to do something else but only have my IT skillset.