[kevshed]

Hi all,

Thought i'd share this story, as a warning, and perhaps to stimulate some discussion... totally non AV related, but interesting none the less.

My poor old parents (Both retired), had a boiler on service contract with British Gas for 10+ years, since they originally installed it. The thing went on the blink, and they effectivly wrote it off, citing the need for a replacement.

Nothing special about the installation, went in the same place, minimal pipework apart from removal of the hot tank (they installed a combi).

Sadly, they didnt ask my advice, not that im an expert, but i would have at least investigated it for them - and they were stung with a nearly £4000 bill. (which was beyond their means etc etc).

I felt there were totally ripped off by British Gas. I've researched the boiler, and it could be picked up for well under £1000 even including the flu etc. They used the old programmer and thermostats etc etc and did the installation in just over 1 day.

After the fact, nothing you can do about it...

Anyway, I have a 30 year+ boiler at my house and have decided to replace it this year. Its in a awkward place, and will need re-siting.

Out of pure interest, i had British Gas over today - My house is a standard affair, 3 bed detached 1 bathroom, nothing special.

The guy turns up, measured my water pressure and recommended moving it to the garage, giving me some kitchen space back. All good... liked it so far. After some random other discussions where he was clearly sussing out my cash position, etc, he sat down and prepared a quote for me.

Now, my place is old, but when i renovated, i changed all of the rads (3 years ago), had the system flushed etc.

He proceeded, to tell me i 'must' take a powerflush ... @ £300 ish - , i then 'must' have a filter installed (thing called a Magnaclean) - to protect the boiler.... this actually looks very good - and again, he quoted something in the region of £350 for that.

Then.... here comes the quote.

Over £5300 total bill. I was gobsmacked. When i asked to see the breakdown for the quote, he said 'The system doesnt do that'.... and indeed, even the printed quote, which gives a detailed lists of all of the parts needed, and work to be done (down the housebrick needed to block the old Flu hole) - only provides a total summary.

though he did offer me a very generous £200 discount if i ordered today. At which point i politly asked him to leave

So, this evening, i've walked through the quote, and priced up the relevant parts.

Interestingly - the 'rolls royce, and the only one i recommend' boiler that he sold me, was not the top of the range model he suggested... it looks perfectly ok, but is far from the top model.

For those interested,

Here are the key parts, and the prices i could source them for online (first place i looked)

Valliant ecoTEC Pro 28Kw Boiler - £737 inc Vat
Vertical Flu - £100
Valliant Pitched Roof Collar - £16
Valliant Wireless Programmable Thermostat £95

So - i can buy this stuff, for delivery tomorrow for £948, not even being trade.

I can get the filter thing he recommend for £85 delivered on ebay..

So.... Even allowing a good chunk of change for pipe, chemicals, electrics. I cant put the material costs at above £1250 total, including VAT.

So - for a 3 day job... likely with 1 skilled guy, and an apprentice - They expected me to give them in the region of £4267.

Of course, this does include the 'complementary 1 year Homecare 200' cover

So, i'm all for paying skilled and trained firms to ensure these things are done properly - but surely this is outrageous. No doubt, they are calling mainly on the uninitiated, selling on brand and 'trust us' - only to totally abuse that trust.

I have a corgi registered guy coming tomorrow, to quote me - and i've shared this story up front with him, so i'll let you know what a comparative quote looks like.

Anyone else had a similar experience ?

On a positive - Any views on these Valliant boilers, they do look good to me (though i'd buy up in the range a little... still for under £1000)

Kev

[Toasty]

We had a high quote from BG and went with another corgi fitter who was basically around half that price. When you go through a big company, your money passes through many hands who need a slice. Go direct to the fitter / contractor and things become a lot cheaper.

[loz]

I think anyone who has had a replacement boiler has had the same experience...

Ask BG and you will get a quote of £3-4k.

Ask you local, highly recommended, corgi trained independent, and have the same job done for half the price.

Same equipment, same standard of fitters, same outcome, cheaper price...

I have a BG maintenance contract, and every year they told me the same - boiler is old, parts no longer available, must be replaced. Then the fitter would confess that he had to say that, but in reality the boiler would last for many more years without problem...

Then we refitted the utility and decided to have a new boiler fitted anyway to save space, and the local independent did a great job for less than half what BG quoted.

The must survive on the people who never bother to check and just assume that as it is BG they must be the best, and/or reasonably priced.

[emporer]

I had a quote from British gas when we changed our boiler due to our back boiler giving up, I remember they quoted me something like 4k, got a local Corgi reg guy who was fantastic to fit a Worcester Bosch 28kw jobbie (in a different room and upstairs) for about £1270 iirc.

[DVD-Man]

To the OP that is a shocking tale, now I know why the guys at work go grey and age ten years when these things go on the blink!

I'm in a rented flat but I have a Valiant Boiler and it not gave me any problems in the year bar the water pressure dropping a couple of times which was cured in 2 secs with a screwdriver.

Liam

[kevshed]

Thanks for the responses..

I'm not at all suprised by your comments, and personally would never have even considered BG...

What made me mad, was that they are supposed to be a trusted name, and must be thriving off the backs of the people least able to afford it.

grrr... I think my hulk phase is coming back

Just imagine all those old people who struggle to stretch their winter fuel allowances, all geting ripped off by BG.

Terrible state of affairs.

[neilios]

Lol i fitted an ethos 54c for a rather rich client who then requested that the new boiler be put umder the bg care policy .
They appeared and did a site inspection ,proceeced to tell the customer the hot and cold were crossed and that the boiler was cheap polish junk and she would be better off with a worcester bosch boiler instead because they don't list the ethos .


Anyway after clearing up the **** stirring with the customer ,i precceded to dilligently find the responsible engineeer thru contacts at corgi and politely reminded his boss to never to bring my work and recommendations into disripute again .


As for advice on choosing an engineer ,if you choose the cheapest you will get a job which has some of the regs missing and swept under the carpet ,choose an engineer that listens to your requests but listen to how much detail he goes into regarding the installation .


Im sure for those with elderly parents they can apply for a grant under the warm front ,eaga schemes ,but remember that these schemes do save money but there are not as flexible in job details as a private job due to the nature of the budget.

When i was a fitter my team used to fit systems with a boiler and up to 12 rads in under a day including s plan ,y plan systems, using up to 180m copper in a day ,aswell as travelling upto 5 hrs .

Lol much easier being my own boss.

[Ned Senior]

Similar thing happening to my oldies... their backboiler on a solid fuel fire burst a coupla weeks ago. The landlord sent round a central heating bloke who said he would need to fit new boiler, oil tank (they're changing) and replace two radiators to improve the system £6600 ... NOW they do not have to pay as the landlord will do so BUT HE rang a few days later to say that he will now be putting the rent up by £57 a month plus the Bi-annual upping of the rent will also occur at year end this year

What P...s me off is that they both worked until retirement from age 14 onwards in the labour market (not office wallahs) so their pay was meagre they paid nominal amounts into pensions and now they earn between them £15-£20 over the threshhold for full help with poll tax and rent so have to pay for these out of their incomes

People like them really struggle it is so unfair after the hard work they did in life especially dad who maintained public transport vehicles

[kevshed]

thanks for the posts.

Well, not to cast dispurtions on those tradesman out there, but of the 2 corgi fitters i contacted - neither turned up.... oh dear !

Anyone know a decent fitter in Bourenmouth/Poole area ?

Kev

[eric pisch]

BG are pirates

they wait for gas prices to drop off, they put there rates up 33% and then run a massive cap your price add with an additional 10% premium

I left or am trying to leave them at the moment, my final bill and we had a DD setup is £1600! On checking the statement there first meter reading is 00000 when npower say it was 05800 at the time BG took over 8 weeks delay handing over so far whilst we argue that npower are right and how could a house possibly be 00000 on its original meter, in the last 2 weeks i have had 2 demands or instant cut of notices even thou i have rung numerous times to say the account is suspended and under investigation .........

[SeanT]

Originally Posted by Ned Senior

Similar thing happening to my oldies... their backboiler on a solid fuel fire burst a coupla weeks ago. The landlord sent round a central heating bloke who said he would need to fit new boiler, oil tank (they're changing) and replace two radiators to improve the system £6600 ... NOW they do not have to pay as the landlord will do so BUT HE rang a few days later to say that he will now be putting the rent up by £57 a month plus the Bi-annual upping of the rent will also occur at year end this year

Find somewhere else to live, then tell him not to waste his 6 and a half grand on account of he won't have any rent coming in to pay for it with

[SeanT]

Originally Posted by neilios

As for advice on choosing an engineer ,if you choose the cheapest you will get a job which has some of the regs missing and swept under the carpet

Tell him you work for CORGI then

[neilios]

Originally Posted by SeanT

Tell him you work for CORGI then

Eh?

[KoThreads]

I don't know how they still get work. I had my combi changed two years ago next month, new programmer, flushed, total £1600 by a local corgi guy. BG's quote was £3500

[Mac Man]

Just had BG over this morning. we have a gas fired AGA and a 25 year old boiler. Both AGA and gas boiler do hot water. Boiler takes care of the CH.

I'm thinking of ditching the AGA altogether and replacing it with a wood fired stove for supplementary hot water (and it'll make the kitchen cosy) and then a new gas boiler for hot water and CH.

Anyways... the BG man appeared to know his stuff and seemed like a really decent bloke. Then comes the quote.

It's basically to replace the existing boiler and add in the new control sytems - like thermostats etc.

Total price: £4500

The most expensive condensing boiler I can find on t'internet (so far)is £1500. Lord knows where BG they get their prices from. Certainly won't be buying from them!!!

[Saggy]

same story here as many others. Had BG round a couple of years ago and was given a crazy quote of 4500. for a new boiler re sited and flushed, turned the offer down as you would. The old boiler is still going after a service from a good local corgi guy. Now looking to replace and will be getting the same corgi guy round to fit the new boiler etc etc and saving around £3K on the original quote. Not that the money will be around for long as the wife has her eyes on a log cabin
Martin

[Duncan G]

Heres the web site for info on heating and home insulation grants. It applys for those on certains benefits so is worth checking out as you may know someone who can get the grant.

http://www.warmfront.co.uk/

[Duncan G]

Originally Posted by Ned Senior

Similar thing happening to my oldies... their backboiler on a solid fuel fire burst a coupla weeks ago. The landlord sent round a central heating bloke who said he would need to fit new boiler, oil tank (they're changing) and replace two radiators to improve the system £6600 ... NOW they do not have to pay as the landlord will do so BUT HE rang a few days later to say that he will now be putting the rent up by £57 a month plus the Bi-annual upping of the rent will also occur at year end this year

What P...s me off is that they both worked until retirement from age 14 onwards in the labour market (not office wallahs) so their pay was meagre they paid nominal amounts into pensions and now they earn between them £15-£20 over the threshhold for full help with poll tax and rent so have to pay for these out of their incomes

People like them really struggle it is so unfair after the hard work they did in life especially dad who maintained public transport vehicles

Remind your dad to let the Housing Benefit office know of the rent increase as they may get extra help to meet the cost. Have they had a benefit check at their local CAB to make sure they are not missing out on other benefits?

[depot]

Originally Posted by Ned Senior

What P...s me off is that they both worked until retirement from age 14 onwards in the labour market (not office wallahs) so their pay was meagre they paid nominal amounts into pensions and now they earn between them £15-£20 over the threshhold for full help with poll tax and rent so have to pay for these out of their incomes

I meet a fair number of oap's through my job, and i hear the above quote all the time. It can't be by chance that so many oap's are just above the allowance, therefore stopping them getting any help.

[krish]

My retired parents replaced their 25 year old boiler last month
... got all the quotes including a horrific one from BG for around £4K, and finally went with a local firm who they trusted (and I went to school with the owner's son), quoted competitively, and incidentally had installed the original system when my folks bought the house new in '83

Was a Vaillant ecoTEC plus 418 open vent with Danfoss FP715 Si programmer & new immersion heater/cylinder, pipework, flue, brickwork etc etc, for £2.5K all in.

They managed to use that "Warmfront" scheme to get free loft insulation, but not a grant for the system because it wasn't yet condemnable