[CheekyKid]

85% say yes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzRoDo804zo

[eric pisch]

i can see why, although the BNP have a nasty underside and i wouldn't vote for them those 5 policies i agree with totally.

added to the fact the 2 main parties in the UK are currently at best pathetic, Tony el-presidentay, gordo i destroyed the economy and im going for most unpopular PM ever, Dave the slimey ex car sales man. They all say anything to get votes, they all u turn at the drop of a hat to get votes, none of them have strong leadership or policies.

so there is scope for a party with strong views on issues that people have concerns about to use those policies to gain support even if they have a hidden agenda, and it works they have a seat on the GLA.

and btw immigration control is not "racist" there is no reason why you can not have a system that lets people in who have work pre arranged (ie a company sponsor), we are a small country with limited housing etc so you can not have an open door policy. Personally I have no problem with anyone coming here to work if its done in a proper manner and they contribute to society by paying tax.

[Ian J]

Rather than just posting a question - what's your opinion CheekyKid ?

[The Dude]

Any party that represents the views of the British public, however small a minority, has a place in British politics.


You can't ban racists* from airing their opinions politically, any more than you can ban blacks, Muslims or women from airing theirs.









* lets not try and pretend that anybody who votes BNP is obviously a racist, at least not in the classic definiton of the word.

[tabs]

there is a difference between being a racist or being patriotic

[krish]

Originally Posted by tabs

there is a difference between being a racist or being patriotic

and the BNP organisation and activists sure ain't patriotic

[Gary D]

yes they have a place. I don't agree with them, but they do have a place.

We live in a free country, which means free to express your political views as long as they do not advocate violence against others. If we start banning people from free speech then its the thin end of the wedge. The only way to stop people voting BNP is to engage them in informed political debate. Just banning parties because you don't agree with them is just plain wrong. As well as being against everything that a free country stands for.

what that saying? "I dont agree with what you said but i would defend with my life your right to say it" (something like that)


G

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by tabs

there is a difference between being a racist or being patriotic

The BNP are trying to redefine the meaning of the word "patriotic" as their meaning is different to that of most people.

The BNP vision is a Britain peopled only by like minded individuals but I would like to think that I was a patriot even though I'm not a tattood, lager swilling racist so I wouldn't fit into their brave new world.

In answer to the original question, of course the BNP have a place in British politics as the British democracy is one of the postitive things about this country.

[Gary D]

Originally Posted by tabs

there is a difference between being a racist or being patriotic

i bloody hope so!!!!

[Miyazaki]

We do need immigration control like Australia or Italy has.

However, with our colonial history, we have a different responsibility.

We invited loads of people from the Caribbean and the subcontinent in the 1950s and 1960s for heavens sake!

[SimonH]

I guess I'll buck the trend, no I don't think they do have. Having a a populist manifesto to camoflague the hatred and reality of what the BNP are at heart is not enough.

A party should have to earn a right to be seen as a viable parter in the democratic process, would a Nazi party be accepable as long as they talked about increasing prison sentances ?

I actually agree to some of their basic points, but isn't that exactly what they are trying to do, appeal to the basic common denominator, gain credibility by flavouring their politics with what irks us most but without us seeing the dark underbelly.

Imagine the day the BNP got into power, some may feel that was the day true democracy died, not flourished.

It was only 20 years ago the group was founded by a Nazi , even it's more modern day counters , Nick Griffin etc are a nasty piece of work, do some digging to see the reality.

It's one thing to agree with basic simplistic principles laid out to titalate , it's entirely another to understand how those practises would be carried out.

[Naqv]

You can't deny them a place in politics, if they stick to the rules (non-violence) etc, no matter how disgusting their views are. That is what democracy is about.

They are a racist party though, so anyone getting the impression that they are fine needs to re-evaluate their views, as they are just mascarading as patriots etc, when their primary concern is other races/religions.
That is all they are concerned about.

[andykn]

Originally Posted by Ian J

The BNP are trying to redefine the meaning of the word "patriotic" as their meaning is different to that of most people.

The BNP vision is a Britain peopled only by like minded individuals but I would like to think that I was a patriot even though I'm not a tattood, lager swilling racist so I wouldn't fit into their brave new world.

In answer to the original question, of course the BNP have a place in British politics as the British democracy is one of the postitive things about this country.

I agree. Look at countries where political parties are banned, do we want to be members of that club?

Despite what many think about democracy and the value of the individual vote, they do all count. I'm sure politicians do look at the "fringe" parties votes' and take note.

The Green Party made a strong showing at European Parliament elections a few years age, that was what encouraged interest in green issues in the more mainstream parties.

It's important to understand and address the concerns, not suppress them.

[SimonH]

Originally Posted by andykn

The Green Party made a strong showing at European Parliament elections a few years age, that was what encouraged interest in green issues in the more mainstream parties.

It's important to understand and address the concerns, not suppress them.

Andy, not sure about you but I make a distinction between cutting down the forests and promoting racial hatred.

How would you address the "real concerns" of the BNP, not the nice flowery ones ? I would like to supress their true sentiments about people who do not share their coloured skin.

Any time you allow people like this to corrupt a democracy, it weakens it and makes it a a tool of the party not the people it serves IMO.

[loz]

I might not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. (or words to that effect)

[Gary D]

Originally Posted by SimonH

Any time you allow people like this to corrupt a democracy, it weakens it and makes it a a tool of the party not the people it serves IMO.

surely a strong democracy is one that allows people to say what they like, not one that limits what the people say?

[krish]

Originally Posted by Naqv

They are a racist party though, so anyone getting the impression that they are fine needs to re-evaluate their views, as they are just mascarading as patriots etc

It does both amuse and annoy me that certain people complain about the mainstream parties being a bunch of lying sleazebags, yet are willing, without batting an eyelid, to trust a bunch of people convicted for violent racial attacks and benefit fraud just because they mutter a few words about being tough on crime and immigration. Irrespective of their criminal convictions they i.e. Nick Griffin in particular (and his young deputy who's shagging his daughter) are also on record as holocaust deniers and friends of the KKK. Then there's combat 18.

Genuine BNP supporters/activists are racists/white supremacists/neo-Nazis, period, they fully know what their party is about. People who vote for them based on their attractive rhetoric without giving them the same scrutiny they afford mainstream politicians, are certainly a bit dim, to say the least.

[Wild Weasel]

It's funny that you never hear the right wing saying "Do the Socialist Workers Party have a place in British politics?" A little insight in the general intolerance of the left here I think.

What's dangerous for democracy is when the mainsteam parties ignore mainsteam concerns. When that happens, people start looking elsewhere for a voice. For example: People vote UKIP because the main 3 parties are in lock step on the EU.

[lostinspace]

I don't agree with much of what the BNP believes, but they're not the only racists in Britain these days are they?

[krish]

Originally Posted by loz

I might not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. (or words to that effect)

and before anyone says it was Voltaire ...

Originally Posted by krish

A quote, very often wrongly attributed in many GC threads ...

Voltaire never ever said or wrote "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
- this was was written by Evelyn Beatrice Hall (writing as 'S. G. Tallentyre') in her 1906 biographical book 'The Friends of Voltaire'

[neilios]

Originally Posted by krish

It does both amuse and annoy me that certain people complain about the mainstream parties being a bunch of lying sleazebags, yet are willing, without batting an eyelid, to trust a bunch of people convicted for violent racial attacks and benefit fraud just because they mutter a few words about being tough on crime and immigration. Irrespective of their criminal convictions they i.e. Nick Griffin in particular (and his young deputy who's shagging his daughter) are also on record as holocaust deniers and friends of the KKK. Then there's combat 18.

Genuine BNP supporters/activists are racists/white supremacists/neo-Nazis, period, they fully know what their party is about. People who vote for them based on their attractive rhetoric without giving them the same scrutiny they afford mainstream politicians, are certainly a bit dim, to say the least.

No other politicians with convictions then ,fraud ,child abuse ,etc ,etc .

[andykn]

Originally Posted by SimonH

Andy, not sure about you but I make a distinction between cutting down the forests and promoting racial hatred.

How would you address the "real concerns" of the BNP, not the nice flowery ones ? I would like to supress their true sentiments about people who do not share their coloured skin.

Any time you allow people like this to corrupt a democracy, it weakens it and makes it a a tool of the party not the people it serves IMO.

Whilst I too can differentiate between cutting down forests and promoting racial hatred I'm not sure that it's a good idea to listen to one and suppress rather than address the other.

Where the BNP are starting to gain support, issues need to be addressed, not suppressed. Whether it's dumping immigrants in areas the politicians think won't make fuss or just educational issues, the level of their support shows where action needs to be taken.

[biggles1958]

Originally Posted by krish

It does both amuse and annoy me that certain people complain about the mainstream parties being a bunch of lying sleazebags, yet are willing, without batting an eyelid, to trust a bunch of people convicted for violent racial attacks and benefit fraud just because they mutter a few words about being tough on crime and immigration. Irrespective of their criminal convictions they i.e. Nick Griffin in particular (and his young deputy who's shagging his daughter) are also on record as holocaust deniers and friends of the KKK. Then there's combat 18.

Genuine BNP supporters/activists are racists/white supremacists/neo-Nazis, period, they fully know what their party is about. People who vote for them based on their attractive rhetoric without giving them the same scrutiny they afford mainstream politicians, are certainly a bit dim, to say the least.

there are a lot of people who support the BNP who have NO criminal record

you are making generalisations!

also non whites commit violent racial attacks

Paks have attacked white folk because of their colour NOT their politics!!

[The Dude]

Originally Posted by SimonH

I actually agree to some of their basic points, but isn't that exactly what they are trying to do, appeal to the basic common denominator, gain credibility by flavouring their politics with what irks us most but without us seeing the dark underbelly.

Imagine the day the Labour Party Conservatives BNP got into power, some may feel that was the day true democracy died, not flourished.

Welcome to politics.

[Setenza]

Originally Posted by biggles1958

Paks have attacked white folk because of their colour NOT their politics!!

Is this not a pejorative term?

Would you care to clarify and possibly replace?

[Setenza]

I think you should always engage head on with your political enemies no matter how extreme.

I do not like it when a BNP councillor for example, is democratically elected and the other councillors will not work with them and elect to send them to "Coventry" so to speak.

Should they not be countering and intellectual defeating the "nasty" ideology of these groups through rigorous debate?

If you ignore certain groups or bend the rules to disenfranchise them do you not give them the oxygen of publicity and strengthen their credibility among the misguided who support them?

[biggles1958]

Originally Posted by Xusia Of Delos

Is this not a pejorative term?

Would you care to clarify and possibly replace?

no - its widely used

**** is what you are confusing it with - which is offensive!

the BBC HYS forum allows Pak/s as being people from Pakistan or the country

Pak being the country

Paks being the people

its an abbreviation when forum comments have a limit on the number of characters!

next you will want Brits banned - pc gone mad!!

[Mr Incredible]

Any party who sets out to unfairly disadvantage any section of society for the benefit of others in the name of patriotism, represents a set of British value which I don't recognise. I hope others are the same and not vote for a set of prejudices wrapped up in a veneer of patriotism.

[Mr Incredible]

Originally Posted by biggles1958

no - its widely used

**** is what you are confusing it with - which is offensive!

the BBC HYS forum allows Pak/s as being people from Pakistan or the country

Pak being the country

Paks being the people

Personally I think it just a way of rephrasing to appear to represent something else, when in fact it just reinforces old prejudices/taboos.

[biggles1958]

Originally Posted by Mr Incredible

Personally I think it just a way of rephrasing to appear to represent something else, when in fact it just reinforces old prejudices/taboos.

well the BBC as the most pc broadcaster on the planet disagree - but heck whats to stop you trying to stir things