[Crystalref]

Mods, you may feel inclined to move this from the general discussion forum to elsewhere, but I consider that this deserves the widest possible circulation for anyone considering buying or selling and considering using PayPal as a means to move money from A to B.

I am compelled to post my recent experience with PayPal because I consider myself one of those people who is law-abiding, honest and who believes in playing by the rules. In a nutshell, I value my integrity and have always believed that if you play fair, others will treat you accordingly.

I have bought and sold items on Ebay since 2003 and have a 100% positive feedback rating of 152. I have also maintained a Verified Premier PayPal account for the same length of time and regularly use this service to pay for items I buy online and as a means of receiving payment from buyers for kit sold on Ebay or elsewhere (cheques are not always reliable and not everyone wishes to travel and collect and pay in cash.

At the beginning of July 2008 I advertised an IsoTek GII MiniSub on the Hififorsale classified ads website and was contacted by a buyer from Edinburgh (I live in Hampshire).

We agreed a sale price of £325 and the buyer sent me an e-cheque via my PayPal account which appeared to be a secure medium and would allow me to send the item as soon as the buyer's payment cleared.

When I tried to transfer the funds to my bank account, PayPal sent me a message informing me that because I had received more than $1300 USD my account (I have recently sold some hi fi on Ebay for £500) access was limited and I would have to complete additional security steps to comply with European anti-money laundering laws!

On 12/07/08 at PayPal's insistance I confirmed my bank account details, linked and confirmed a credit card, changed my password, provided business information (I do not operate a business!) and changed my security questions & answers. The final hurdle was to verify my address by PayPal phoning me and asking for a security code. Well, the phone rang and promptly disconnected. As a result, PayPal state that I failed that security step and on 22/07/08 they sent me a letter containing a six-digit security code that I will have to enter on my account to comply with their checklist of tasks.

I contacted (with much difficulty) one of their 'customer services' agents who told me that they could not telephone my home address because the computer could not be overridden and I would have to wait for the letter to arrive. Not very helpful at all!

By 10/08/08, the letter had still not arrived and I made a complaint to PayPal. The response was that the letter was being processed in the USA???????? and could take up to three weeks to arrive. They acknowledged that I had been inconvenienced and as an alternative option, I could fax copies of my utility bills to PayPal as a means of satisfying them that I lived where I do!

I duly faxed all the required documentation on 11/08/08 and received an acknowledgment stating that the documents could take up to five days to process (for f**** sake!).

As of today (16/08/08) my PayPal account is still locked and neither my buyer or myself can acces the £325 that Paypal are no doubt earning interest on (together with thousands of pounds worldwide as I have since learned that this is a popular strategy of PayPal).

My buyer is frustrated because he has parted with his money and is waiting for his item. I am frustrated because I cannot access the funds and I am obligated to hold the item for my buyer, therefore not able to sell it to someone else.

After a bit of internet research I was horrified to learn of others who had fallen foul of this thoroughly disreputable company. Some links are here:-

http://www.paypalsucks.com/
http://www.paypalwarning.com/
http://www.aboutpaypal.org/

Having in the past, used PayPal to send £800 to Canada and £2500 to Italy for purchases via Audiogon, I thank my lucky stars that my sellers accounts were not frozen in the same way as mine is now! Imagine having that much money tied up for months on end with no hope of an early resolution!

So there it is, my tale of woe and a warning to anyone using PayPal that it could easily happen to you too!

Once I get this cleared up I shall cancel my account with these crooks.

Steve

[Chaos]

Not uncommon with Paypal. In my experiance they are hard work and make things difficult - especially for the seller.

[loz]

Rather have it that way than be scamed....

Good to know that they take identity etc seriously.

[pixelpixel]

Is paypal the only method for people ?

[PJTX100]

A while back when I sold a lot of stuff I was embroiled in the same thing, and had to link my bank acct to paypal for "security purposes".

Once through the security process I then unhooked my bank account from paypal, though that took quite a few tries as it always claimed there was a pending transatcion despite me not having bought/sold anything for a while.

I do still use paypal and, so far, have been lucky but there are so many horror stories that it does strike me as a flawed system, open to abuse and unfairness.

[Laptopdealer66]

I have so any hooror stories about paypal its nt true,They currently have over £380 of my money they have had tied up for just short of three months.

They reckon it ill be released in 10 days but i am not optomistic,They deny that they earn intrest off money they tie up but I once hgot a supervisor to admit that they do,I hate paypal but unforftunatley now ebay will not let you list anything without paypal as a payment method.

[Steven]

Originally Posted by pixelpixel

Is paypal the only method for people ?

There are other online payment sites such as neteller and moneybookers but the popularity of paypal of course can be traced to that other site And I would point out that the security checks with pp are quite lax imo. Just about anyone can setup an account. When I set up with neteller back in my AVF poker days they actually rang me and I had a nice chat with a quite polite lady. No chance a 14 year old would get though like on pp

Paypal are a curiosity as they are registered with the FSA? Would your bank do this? Yet one reads such pp stories on a regular basis

[kav]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

Paypal are a curiosity as they are registered with the FSA? Would your bank do this? Yet one reads such pp stories on a regular basis

Banks/financial services which offer "regulated" services to UK customers are governed by FSA regulations. This includes almost every one of them.

[JagoPlasma]

Originally Posted by Laptopdealer66

I have so any hooror stories about paypal its nt true,They currently have over £380 of my money they have had tied up for just short of three months.

They reckon it ill be released in 10 days but i am not optomistic,They deny that they earn intrest off money they tie up but I once hgot a supervisor to admit that they do,I hate paypal but unforftunatley now ebay will not let you list anything without paypal as a payment method.

well as one now own the other it doesnt surprise me.

but thats what you get for supporting a company like ebay.

the biggest reason i steer clear of paypal is you arent covered by your credit card if you pay via paypal.

I guess you could get round your problem by stipulating that while paypal is available for use by customers, due to administrative costs all buyers must pay an upfront fee of £100 when opting to use paypal

IIRC I think all sellers in this country are allowed by law to only accept cash as a form of payment (despite what contract you sign upto as a member)

[dakara]

Originally Posted by kavanf1

Banks/financial services which offer "regulated" services to UK customers are governed by FSA regulations. This includes almost every one of them.

Is it not true that the FSA regulations/rules are not mandatory, but just voluntarily adhered to by the members ?
Something like cases referred to the Solicitors Complaints Bureau [?], which is like trying to get the Devil found guilty in the Courts Of Hell.

[avinitski]

i really really do not like Paypal but i am sure they are not able to make interest (profit) on money that is in limbo, kind of like when companies hold a deposit, this too I'm sure they are not able to make on your deposit.

[dakara]

Hmm, it turns out that there is another FSA as well.If you complain, you had better make sure that you are dealing with the right one.


10 Apr 2008 ... FSA calls for voluntary ban on artificial colourings ... It had already begun a programme to use alternatives in its biggest brands, ...
www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/apr/10/foodanddrink

[JagoPlasma]

yea food standards agency and financial services authority wouldnt want to complain about an upset stomach to the latter

[CheekyKid]

Moneybookers.com

Miles ahead of paypal plus they have extremely low fees.

Nuff said

[Beetlejuice]

Originally Posted by CheekyKid

Moneybookers.com

Miles ahead of paypal plus they have extremely low fees.

Nuff said

I've never had a problem with Paypal - and since they've made it so there's no fees involved on personal transactions it's much better

I must be one of the lucky ones...

[CheekyKid]

Originally Posted by o Beetlejuice o

since they've made it so there's no fees involved on personal tranactions it's much better

Am not aware of it. Can you clarify?

[Beetlejuice]

Originally Posted by CheekyKid

Am not aware of it. Can you clarify?

When you send money (not including purchases on Ebay as far as I'm aware) you can choose a 'personal' payment now. This means that the seller does not get hit with any fees.

When you first go to the 'send money' screen, by default the tab is on 'purchase', if you change this to 'personal' you can choose to send as a 'gift' etc, meaning neither the seller or buyer pays any fees - what you send is what they get
A new feature from the past month or so...

[CheekyKid]

Originally Posted by o Beetlejuice o

When you send money (not including purchases on Ebay as far as I'm aware) you can choose a 'personal' payment now. This means that the seller does not get hit with any fees.

When you first go to the 'send money' screen, by default the tab is on 'purchase', if you change this to 'personal' you can choose to send as a 'gift' etc, meaning neither the seller or buyer pays any fees - what you send is what they get
A new feature from the past month or so...

Good stuff. Am going to try it

[Beetlejuice]

Originally Posted by CheekyKid

Good stuff. Am going to try it

You can send me some money if you like, just to 'try it' ...

[CheekyKid]

Originally Posted by o Beetlejuice o

You can send me some money if you like, just to 'try it' ...

Actually you just took it out of my mouth

[OnTheFly]

I've never had any trouble using Paypal for buying and selling. However, Paypal protection failed me twice so I closed my account. I also got shafted on feedback by a non paying bidder on eBay so I closed that account also.

[TeenSpirit]

We've just had a warning on paypal saying that we are reaching our receiving limit, due to selling camera, tickets etc. of large amounts recently.

It says we will have to go through security measures - but after reading this I really don't look forward to it - just won't sell any more large items on ebay now to prevent this happening.

[McFaber]

Originally Posted by o Beetlejuice o

When you send money (not including purchases on Ebay as far as I'm aware) you can choose a 'personal' payment now. This means that the seller does not get hit with any fees.

When you first go to the 'send money' screen, by default the tab is on 'purchase', if you change this to 'personal' you can choose to send as a 'gift' etc, meaning neither the seller or buyer pays any fees - what you send is what they get
A new feature from the past month or so...

What's the limit on personal payments?

[sdb123]

Originally Posted by o Beetlejuice o

When you send money (not including purchases on Ebay as far as I'm aware) you can choose a 'personal' payment now. This means that the seller does not get hit with any fees.

When you first go to the 'send money' screen, by default the tab is on 'purchase', if you change this to 'personal' you can choose to send as a 'gift' etc, meaning neither the seller or buyer pays any fees - what you send is what they get
A new feature from the past month or so...

This works well (it's also known as a 'Gift' payment). Be aware that if you send money abroad then (minor) fees will apply; you can choose whether the sender or receipient pays the fees.

[Chrisoldinho]

I've only ever had one problem whilst using Paypal and that wasn't PP fault. I never received an item so claimed my money back through PP. Took over a month in total but atleast I got it all back in the end.

Their fees do seem to be climbing but I guess this is sometimes the price you pay for having relative peace of mind.

Chris.

[Steven]

Paypal may be the biggest behind Visa and Mastercard but if their customer service reputation is to be believed...

Originally Posted by Chrisoldinho

Their fees do seem to be climbing but I guess this is sometimes the price you pay for having relative peace of mind.

Chris.

Paypal fees at the end of the day help the bottom line in the flagship eBay business

Whilst eBay is still the number 1 online auction site, auctions have now lost their sparkle whilst at the same time they are facing increasing competition from Amazon. That is why the eBay fee structure was changed so that auction sellers are disadvantaged at the expense of fixed price sellers. And then there was the feedback system changes *ducks*

I do not use eBay or paypal, I just read the business pages

[ash]

How do you verify your bussiness account if you don't have a bussiness?
I can't seem to change from my bussiness account.

Thank