[Duncan G]

Just announced.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7533389.stm

I've just tied in to a fixed rate with EON untill Oct 2009. Bear in mind there will be another rise this winter.

[Decadence]

Not much we can do about it except freeze...I'm putting fireplaces and chimneys back onto my house so I can chop down all the trees in my garden and burn them...free heat!

[Duncan G]

Originally Posted by Decadence

Not much we can do about it except freeze...I'm putting fireplaces and chimneys back onto my house so I can chop down all the trees in my garden and burn them...free heat!

Not very carbon friendly though

[Decadence]

Like I give a toss! Gas prices are extortionate...human beings have been burning wood to keep warm for centuries.

[Miyazaki]

Originally Posted by Duncan G

Not very carbon friendly though

What do you think happens to the natural gas you use?

[danmc_82]

Originally Posted by Duncan G

Not very carbon friendly though

Actually burning wood is more environmentally friendly than smokeless coal as wood is replaceable. Coal, Gas and oil are not.

[DJT75]

Average of 25% increase for dual fuel. - Is it significant enough to waste my time shopping around? Arguments over metering readings, direct debit cock ups & yet another company with my personal banking details? No, I really can't be arsed.

[Kieron]

Just cap asap..

[Mr Incredible]

When EDF announced big increases after my fixed period ended in February, they wanted to up my direct debit on gas from £85 pm to £150 pm, and electric from £80 to £110 pm. Blow that I thought, and got a great deal with....... British Gas.

Based on my consumption the direct debit has been sat at £110 pm gas and £95 pm. electric.

It's going to be a long hard, lonely and cold winter of discontent.

[Fatti]

Typical, we've just transfered to British Gas from Npower. Just had the letter to provide them with an opening meter reading for electric. Might end up trying to change even before it starts

[Raoul_Duke]

Originally Posted by DJT75

Average of 25% increase for dual fuel. - Is it significant enough to waste my time shopping around? Arguments over metering readings, direct debit cock ups & yet another company with my personal banking details? No, I really can't be arsed.

I switched to Npower, the guy appeared at my door claiming they had no intention of raising their prices, I didnt believe him but as Scottish Gas had just lumped me with a £530 bill because "they hadn't been charging me enough on my DD for the past 2 years" I decided to leave them anyway. Then when they found out I was leaving they called up to talk me out of it.

The girl on the phone told me that the reading may also be wrong cos' they're just using estimates. I asked why they didn't bother sending anyone out to do a reading and she said that they do this 4 times a year. I advised her I had never seen anyone come to my door, I asked if it was likely they were sending someone out between the hours of 9:00 and 17:00 on weekdays, she said "probably, yes" Well that might be why then!

[Kwman]

Originally Posted by Raoul_Duke

I switched to Npower, the guy appeared at my door claiming they had no intention of raising their prices, I didnt believe him but as Scottish Gas had just lumped me with a £530 bill because "they hadn't been charging me enough on my DD for the past 2 years" I decided to leave them anyway. Then when they found out I was leaving they called up to talk me out of it.

The girl on the phone told me that the reading may also be wrong cos' they're just using estimates. I asked why they didn't bother sending anyone out to do a reading and she said that they do this 4 times a year. I advised her I had never seen anyone come to my door, I asked if it was likely they were sending someone out between the hours of 9:00 and 17:00 on weekdays, she said "probably, yes" Well that might be why then!

Hehe I always get a card saying I've missed the meter guy and they will call back on x day from 9-5. Obviously they must think everyone is jobless and spends all day indoors...

[chrism_scotland]

I work in the Energy Industry and we get so annoyed with meter readers going out between 9 and 5, evenings would be far better for people.

[mjn]

Originally Posted by Kwman

Hehe I always get a card saying I've missed the meter guy and they will call back on x day from 9-5. Obviously they must think everyone is jobless and spends all day indoors...

Or you could just take your own meter reading, and pass it to the energy company.......

[johntheexpat]

Originally Posted by Decadence

Not much we can do about it except freeze...I'm putting fireplaces and chimneys back onto my house so I can chop down all the trees in my garden and burn them...free heat!

Don't forget, you have to season your wood for two, or preferably three years, before burning it, otherwise the resins and creosotes in the wood will basically be driven off, lining your chimney with a highly flammable deposit at best and rapidly blocking it at worst.
(Seasoning is a different process to drying, it involves the chemical change of the oils and resins into a less volatile form, which means lower deposits and more heat as you are burning them rather than driving them off.)

[Leej]

How much profit do these companies need to make?

I see British Gas half year profits have fallen to only £166 million and Centrica profits for the half year are £992 million.

So we go cold this winter while they make vast sums of money. It stinks

[Toasty]

The old "how to save energy" talks are getting embarrasing now, the energy expert on GMTV this morning looked exasperated. There's only so much you can do to cut your usage and for what, another 30% rise that completely blows you out of the water

[Mr Incredible]

Originally Posted by leej

How much profit do these companies need to make?

I see British Gas half year profits have fallen to only £166 million and Centrica profits for the half year are £992 million.

So we go cold this winter while they make vast sums of money. It stinks

If they didn't make a profit from which they can reinvest in new technologies and finding new sources of gas, then we'd be looking at longer harder winters as the infrastructure would crumble around us. Profit is good. Excess profit bordering on profiteering is not.

£166m profit (begs the question is that gross profit, net profit or operating profit) on a half turnover of say £5bn, is a profit level of just over 3%. Investors would be better putting their money in a bank and get a higher return there.

What's an acceptable profit level?

[Decadence]

going back to solid fuel and fireplaces is the only way...there's plenty of stuff to burn and it doesn't cost much either!

[KoThreads]

Originally Posted by Toasty

The old "how to save energy" talks are getting embarrasing now, the energy expert on GMTV this morning looked exasperated. There's only so much you can do to cut your usage and for what, another 30% rise that completely blows you out of the water

And i dare say a lot of people have done all they can to save waste. Next stop is to stop using things. I now do 95% of my computer use on my laptop as my two main PC's eat power, fans lights, 750 w power supplies, UPS, big monitors, 5.1 speaker systems, it all adds up, and i will probably sell one of them as it really is a bit of a waste.

But you can only do so much, i turn off everything that can go off all the time now, not just at night. Then you get hit by this and it becomes a 'what the hell am i going to do through winter'. Theres little left to sacrifice.

[Decadence]

I agree...on top of everything else which is getting squeezed (our nursery fees were just jacked up by £25 a month) it is starting to get a bit crazy...

Our household is pretty lucky in that we still have quite a bit left over at the end of the month to absorb the increases...but when we have our next child it will be a whole different scenario...another £300 a month in childcare wil make a bit of a dent in the buffer!

[IronGiant]

Originally Posted by Toasty

The old "how to save energy" talks are getting embarrasing now, the energy expert on GMTV this morning looked exasperated. There's only so much you can do to cut your usage and for what, another 30% rise that completely blows you out of the water

They were struggling on BBC1 too, apart from claiming that the TV they were looking at consumes 70% of the energy on standby it does when it was on they were suggesting you could save a massive £32 a year by turning everything off rather than leaving them on standby

For a penny a day I'll leave things on standby, thanks...

[Phill1978]

Originally Posted by Mr Incredible

£166m profit (begs the question is that gross profit, net profit or operating profit) on a half turnover of say £5bn, is a profit level of just over 3%. Investors would be better putting their money in a bank and get a higher return there.

What's an acceptable profit level?

Just to point out they didn't make £166m profit, I think you've mis interpreted leej. The profit is £992 million for the first half of 2008, which is £166m down on last year. So a profit level on your calculations above would be 19.84% which is very good considering the overheads of such an organisation.

The bulk of profits came from British Gas Services, its central heating repair and maintenance arm, and from Centrica Energy, its wholesale arm.

Slightly OT, but my mate is a TL for British Gas and I joined them on Monday on their Price Saver 2009 and he told me then that any day the price was due to go up although he couldn't say by how much. Thankfully these increases won't affect me for 15 months (when i'll switch again), muhahaha.

[Mr Incredible]

Quote from the article about Centrica:

"The operating profits are 19% below last year after the group felt the impact of rising wholesale costs at British Gas, where profits fell 69% to £166 million." £992m is Centrica group, not British gas on its own.

£166m was half year profits for this year to June (I think!). British Gas have annual revenues of about £10bn. My profit calcs are fine?

[Mr Incredible]

Originally Posted by IronGiant

They were struggling on BBC1 too, apart from claiming that the TV they were looking at consumes 70% of the energy on standby it does when it was on they were suggesting you could save a massive £32 a year by turning everything off rather than leaving them on standby

For a penny a day I'll leave things on standby, thanks...

Slightly OT but related, I was surprised to learn that if I got myself a large screen Plasma to replace my large screen RP LCD, that the damn thing would consume 500W. Fortunately I don't watch a lot of TV!

I don't believe this 70% of power on standby malarkey for one minute. 70% of 500W would be noticeable in just heat terms and people would have been complaining long ago!

[loz]

the big rise is in gas prices.

So I would have thought there is some sensible advice there as how to save some money there.

• Turn the (gas) central heating thermostate down
• turn off radiators in rooms you don't use frequently
• fit thermostatic valves and turn down the temperature for rooms you don't need to be hot. You don't need a hot bedroom, just a thicker quilt
• Don't have the heating on when you are out (or turn the level way down)
• Have the heating on for shorter periods (why have it on 2 hours before you get up, or 24 hours, or 2 hours after you have gone to bed, type thing....)
• insulate, insulate, insulate
• Use the microwave to cook more things (not the gas oven or hob)
• wear more clothes when it is cold rather than turn the heating up
• sleep with a friend to conserve heat (like the old share a bath to save water....)

[Leej]

Originally Posted by Mr Incredible

What's an acceptable profit level?

I don't know. All I see is huge profits for these companies while people are struggling to make ends meet.

[Mr Incredible]

Yep, sometimes a free and open market can be a right pain in the arse.

[PoochJD]

Loz,

You wrote:

Originally Posted by loz

the big rise is in gas prices. So I would have thought there is some sensible advice there as how to save some money there.[LIST] etc, etc.

The problem, though, is not what people can do to save money, but what people do after they have done all the above advice you gave out, and still find they can't pay their utility bills, and it gets to a point where an individual has to ask themself "Do I keep warm through heating my home, or do I cook a warm meal, but have no heating on?"

That's the real issue.

At the moment, for most parts of the UK, the weather's warm enough, so that most people won't be using too much gas, electric or both. The problem starts, though, when our weather decides to take a turn for the worse - as is quite common - and you start having days of snow, in the middle of April, or near-zero temperatures in early-Autumn.

No one, regardless of age, gender or income, should have to be in a position where they have to decide which is going to be less detrimental to their health - staying warm, or eating and drinking! Not in 21st Century Britain!

Bear in mind, that this is the third or maybe even fourth price-hike on energy bills, since Jan 2008! And the real kick in the balls, is the fact that the people who get affected most and worst of all, are the very people who are the most needy or vulnerable, namely: the elderly, the poor, and the housebound!

It's all well and good, fat-cats and energy advisors telling us how to "save" money, but the price rise won't affect them to any noticeable detriment! It's the ones that nobody sees or hears about, that have all the trouble and worry!

I apologise if this post sounds vitriolic, as I'm not angry at you personally, Loz. It's just the whole cruddy situation regarding the constant rise of everyday living, that hacks me off so much! And all the "advisors" do, is patronise everyone by telling them to use less of this, and do more of that, and don't be wasteful! These are the very people who are already doing this kind of "energy saving tactics" on a daily basis, because their money is already being stretched to breaking-point.

It's beyond a joke, when the cost of daily living for the majority of people, is seen as being something we can all simply "tighten our belits over"! It's the pompous, arrogant individuals running the country, and bending us over with our arses naked for all the world to see, that are the ones whose price-hikes are going to be least affected by!

Maybe it's time that Government step-in, and say "If the Shareholders and management of the Utility companies don't lower prices to the customers now, then the belt-tightening will be in the form of forcible and heavy deductions from your profits!" Maybe then, they might listen?!


Pooch

[Toasty]

Originally Posted by loz

the big rise is in gas prices.

So I would have thought there is some sensible advice there as how to save some money there.

• Turn the (gas) central heating thermostate down
• turn off radiators in rooms you don't use frequently
• fit thermostatic valves and turn down the temperature for rooms you don't need to be hot. You don't need a hot bedroom, just a thicker quilt
• Don't have the heating on when you are out (or turn the level way down)
• Have the heating on for shorter periods (why have it on 2 hours before you get up, or 24 hours, or 2 hours after you have gone to bed, type thing....)
• insulate, insulate, insulate
• Use the microwave to cook more things (not the gas oven or hob)
• wear more clothes when it is cold rather than turn the heating up
• sleep with a friend to conserve heat (like the old share a bath to save water....)

I think this is the point, this list can't be trotted out every 3months when another energy supplier boosts their prices, a/ most have headed the advice earlier, b/ its bloomin demoralising that no matter what you do your prices are going up even when your usage goes down. It comes to something when you think to yourself, how much is it gonna cost me to hoover the house, have a bath, keep warm!

Originally Posted by IronGiant

they were suggesting you could save a massive £32 a year by turning everything off rather than leaving them on standby

Good point, it also starts invalidating arguments regards standby, yeah save £32 on a £1000+ bill, great!

Edit: As Pooch says, not having a pop at you Loz, some good advice there, especially the last one