It would appear that Labours problems are more than Gordon Brown

[damo_in_sale]

I think most on this forum have an idea of my opinions. Here are the views of the Guardian's online readership, as articulated to Mr. David Milliband.

New Labour used to be lionised by the 'left' (in the main), and despised by the 'right'. Now they appear to be simply hated.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...lcomments=true

Kind regards,

Damo

[la gran siete]

[QUOTE=damo_in_sale;7450838]I think most on this forum have an idea of my opinions. /QUOTE]
As unrelentingly tedious and wrong headed as they are . yes we do

[LFC_SL]

Play nice please otherwise infractions will be issued

[krish]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

Play nice please otherwise infractions will be issued

the OP might prefer infraction vouchers as it is the right of decent hardworking people to have a say in the matter and receive infractions from a supplier of their choice

[andykn]

Originally Posted by damo_in_sale

I think most on this forum have an idea of my opinions. Here are the views of the Guardian's online readership, as articulated to Mr. David Milliband.

New Labour used to be lionised by the 'left' (in the main), and despised by the 'right'. Now they appear to be simply hated.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...lcomments=true

Kind regards,

Damo

I think they are socialists disappointed that public spending has not risen much from the unsustainably low levels left by all those years of Tory infrastructure neglect. We do have a better health service but no more money for transport (except in London) and just a couple of shiny new roads the Tories built we can't afford to drive on.

But of course, if the Tories had been in power for the last 11 years we'd have had no Iraq War and petrol would be 50p/litre.

[damo_in_sale]

Originally Posted by andykn

I think they are socialists disappointed that public spending has not risen much from the unsustainably low levels left by all those years of Tory infrastructure neglect.

As most can now see, government expenditure has increased beyond the capacity of the taxpayer. If that were not the case, then the government would not have posted large deficits during fifteen years of economic growth in the UK. Or perhaps we need some more tax increases to actually pay for our current government expenditure?

In any case, I think you are incorrect in your assertion that most of the posters, on the CiF thread in question, and a myriad of others on CiF, think public spending has not...

Originally Posted by andykn

risen much from the unsustainably low levels left by all those years of Tory infrastructure neglect.

If you have read the above CiF thread, in total, then I find it difficult to understand how you arrived at your conclusion.

It strikes me that the public in general simply despises Labour, and for many differing reasons.

Originally Posted by andykn

But of course, if the Tories had been in power for the last 11 years we'd have had no Iraq War...

One example, of a multitude, of the Labour governments conduct regarding the Iraq war:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...ar-428545.html
And for a bit of comedy, here is the Labour Governments reasons for war in Iraq, in their own words, and as presented to the UK public and to members of Parliament:
http://www.fco.gov.uk/resources/en/p...co_iraqdossier
It would be a laugh a minute if it wasn't a serious matter.

Most MP's who voted for war in Iraq voted in good faith, based on the Labour governments 'evidence', as presented to the Commons and to the UK public.

Originally Posted by andykn

and petrol would be 50p/litre.

Well I don't think that would be the case, but I do think that workers would be allowed to keep more of their own money to spend as they please, whether that be on fuel for their mode of transport, food for their kids or whatever.


Regardless, and returning to my original point, the public appears to largely despise Labour, and the reasons appear to be numerous.

[Miyazaki]

Come back from the dark side Damo.

You have let the fear and hatred from emperor cameron pollute your soul.

[NewMan]

^^

"Darth" Andykn Skywalker: "I find your lack of faith disturbing"...


Tony Wan Kenobi: Brown was a pupil of mine, until he was seduced by the dark side.

Brown (using jedi mind trick on public): You don't need to see our expense claims. These aren't the data discs you're looking for. Vote Labour. Move along.

[SeanT]

Originally Posted by NewMan;7451879Brown ([I

using jedi mind trick on public[/I]): You don't need to see our expense claims. These aren't the data discs you're looking for.

The ones you are looking for are now in the public domain, as they were left on our excellent public transport system

[andykn]

Originally Posted by damo_in_sale

As most can now see, government expenditure has increased beyond the capacity of the taxpayer.

When you say "most" you presumably are not referring to the other countries whose tax burden is higher than the UK, like France.

If that were not the case, then the government would not have posted large deficits during fifteen years of economic growth in the UK.

But the largest ever UK deficit, around 43bn pounds, was posted by the Tories around 1992. Admittedly this year may beat that, but possibly not when adjusted for inflation. New Labour had at least two years of surplus, not deficit.

Or perhaps we need some more tax increases to actually pay for our current government expenditure?

In any case, I think you are incorrect in your assertion that most of the posters, on the CiF thread in question, and a myriad of others on CiF, think public spending has not...

The last figures I saw posted on here showed that public spending as a proportion of GDP had only risen by about two percentage points over the whole of New Labour's tenure. If you were correct about borrowing going up, taxation would have risen even less. Of course, that record Tory deficit had to be paid for.

If you have read the above CiF thread, in total, then I find it difficult to understand how you arrived at your conclusion.

It strikes me that the public in general simply despises Labour, and for many differing reasons.




One example, of a multitude, of the Labour governments conduct regarding the Iraq war:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...ar-428545.html
And for a bit of comedy, here is the Labour Governments reasons for war in Iraq, in their own words, and as presented to the UK public and to members of Parliament:
http://www.fco.gov.uk/resources/en/p...co_iraqdossier
It would be a laugh a minute if it wasn't a serious matter.

Most MP's who voted for war in Iraq voted in good faith, based on the Labour governments 'evidence', as presented to the Commons and to the UK public.

So no Tory MPs read Private Eye? We all knew WMD was hogwash, as did the UN. It would have been no different under the Tories.

[NewMan]

Originally Posted by andykn

...the largest ever UK deficit, around 43bn pounds, was posted by the Tories around 1992. Admittedly this year may beat that, but possibly not when adjusted for inflation...

Would that be real inflation, or Labour inflation?

[andykn]

Originally Posted by NewMan

Would that be real inflation, or Labour inflation?

It would be the inflation that includes the things that the shops on your high street (not just supermarkets and petrol stations) are still selling last time I looked, unlike what the newspapers would have the very gullible believe.

Unless, of course, you pay school fees, then your personal inflation may be a bit higher.

[PJTX100]

Just my two penneth (or 50 billion Zimbabwe dollars...)

Gordon Brown does not fill me with confidence one iota.

His apparently successful tenure as chancellor owes as much to luck as design.

To be fair a lot of his current woes are as much due to bad luck than bad design, but it shows he can't influence things one way or the other.

He copped out when he should have gone to the electorate, at least that would have given him an air of credibility.

The sooner he goes the better.

And no I don't think it will be any better with whoever follows him.

But at least they hopefully won't have as cheesy a smile.

[Ed Selley]

Originally Posted by PJTX100

Just my two penneth (or 50 billion Zimbabwe dollars...)

Gordon Brown does not fill me with confidence one iota.

His apparently successful tenure as chancellor owes as much to luck as design.

To be fair a lot of his current woes are as much due to bad luck than bad design, but it shows he can't influence things one way or the other.

He copped out when he should have gone to the electorate, at least that would have given him an air of credibility.

The sooner he goes the better.

And no I don't think it will be any better with whoever follows him.

But at least they hopefully won't have as cheesy a smile.

Oooh- you appear to have stolen my brain and the thoughts contained within. Labour is definately beaten with Brown at the helm but could yet stage a resurgance with someone else in charge. Someone who might be prepared to let talanted people into cabinet roles rather than feeling threatened by them and casting them into rebelious exile would be a good start.

[NewMan]

Originally Posted by andykn

It would be the inflation that includes the things that the shops on your high street (not just supermarkets and petrol stations) are still selling last time I looked, unlike what the newspapers would have the very gullible believe.

Anyone interested in a quick "straw poll", could you comment on whether you agree that the current inflation figure is accurate, or are you one of the "gullible" public?

I can see where this is headed, nobody will reply now, knowing my luck....

Anyway, despite everything, it would appear the Labour Party's raking it in... Not surprising, really.

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