Iran executes 29 in jail hangings

PJTX100 · 27-07-2008, 8:09 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/7527431.stm

Do you think this sort of approach would have an impact on crime levels in this country?

Reign-Mack · 27-07-2008, 9:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJTX100

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/7527431.stm

Do you think this sort of approach would have an impact on crime levels in this country?

depends on what sort of crime you are talking about? if its the type that being killed is already part of the job than no, but if you start executing currupt politicians, money launderers and various other crimes that take part in the financial sector which effects millions then yeah I think it would have an impact on the levels this country.

andykn · 27-07-2008, 9:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJTX100

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/7527431.stm

Do you think this sort of approach would have an impact on crime levels in this country?

Like it does in the US?

If you are from the Compton area of LA, your life expectancy goes up if you are on death row.

PJTX100 · 27-07-2008, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andykn

Like it does in the US?

If you are from the Compton area of LA, your life expectancy goes up if you are on death row.

Isn't that more to do with legalised firearms than the death penalty?

andykn · 27-07-2008, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJTX100

Isn't that more to do with legalised firearms than the death penalty?

But the death penalty in the US doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent.

PJTX100 · 27-07-2008, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andykn

But the death penalty in the US doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent.

I'm not an expert on the US death penalty but I can't recall 29 hangings going on in the US recently. Electric chair for one person after 15 years of appeals maybe. But that is slightly different.

Steve N · 27-07-2008, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andykn

If you are from the Compton area of LA, your life expectancy goes up if you are on death row.

Ethics Gradient · 27-07-2008, 11:21 AM

Out of the 10 safest countries to live in the world in terms of least murders per capita:

Only 2 have the death penalty, and out of those, only for exceptional crimes such us under military law, not for normal public crimes of murder.
Israel which is 5th is the one with only exceptional crimes, Singapore is in 10th, the only one with the death penalty for normal crimes.

Iran is certainly not in that list ... especially since Iran has double the amount of murders than the UK per capita.

Sort of knocks that idea on the head doesn't it ?

*The Dude* · 27-07-2008, 11:31 AM

I think it's a great idea, imagine how much fun it would be watching proper 'cops and robbers' shootouts in the highstreet.

biggles1958 · 27-07-2008, 11:44 AM

and those 'exporting' insurgents and arms into Iraq are heroes?

what a screwed up country

sooner its crushed the better imo!

stands back and accepts flack from pro Iran fan club/Israel haters/Taleb supporters!!

PJTX100 · 27-07-2008, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethics Gradient

Sort of knocks that idea on the head doesn't it ?

Are you saying crime, especially murder / rape etc, would stay the same or even go up in the UK if the Iranian hanging example was adopted in this country?

**Steven** · 27-07-2008, 12:04 PM

No,

I think he is merely stating that there is not necessarily a correlation between the death penalty and the reduction in (serious) crime rates. That is not the same as saying that without the death penalty (serious) crime rates will go up

LFC_SL

Mr Incredible · 27-07-2008, 12:06 PM

Mahatma Gandhi - "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".

In an oppressive regime a state's definition of "crime" is often used to reinforce age-old prejudices founded on belief systems and religious dogma.

In Iran between 1990 and 2007 Iran have executed at least 24 children. One of the more prominent hangings was that of a 16 year old girl, Atefeh Rajabi, who was convicted for crimes against chastity.

Iran also execute men for the "crime" of being homosexual. A recent study released last month conclusively show that people of either sex attracted to their same gender have their brains "wired" differently. So is that a "crime" worth punishing by death?

Miyazaki · 27-07-2008, 12:32 PM

The trouble with places like iran is that despite importing 21st century technology, they still have a 14th century mindset.

Its kind of like why the vulcans held off making first contact with the humans in star trek until they thought they were ready.

biggles1958 · 27-07-2008, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Games Guru

The trouble with places like iran is that despite importing 21st century technology, they still have a 14th century mindset.

Its kind of like why the vulcans held off making first contact with the humans in star trek until they thought they were ready.

the problem is that along with their friends they want to bring us all 14th justice as defined by themselves!

conform or die!!

i'm sure i'm not alone in this idea but it will end in a big mushroom cloud and it will not be in Washington/London?

and it gets closer every day - the USA/UK have now seen that Pakistan is a failed state and are moving towards India as their new partner (reactors etc) - India is becoming a world economic power whilst Pakistan grubs around for the crumbs from the table

the Pakistan nukes are not a risk as the USA has plans to remove/destroy then at a time when they and the rest of the world see them as instability on the world stage!

Reign-Mack · 27-07-2008, 1:22 PM

we need another Operation Ajax that will fix things for the future

Ethics Gradient · 27-07-2008, 1:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

No,

I think he is merely stating that there is not necessarily a correlation between the death penalty and the reduction in (serious) crime rates. That is not the same as saying that without the death penalty (serious) crime rates will go up

LFC_SL

Thanks

There never has been a proven corelation between rates of crime and the punishment for the crime.
Everyone has to remember that most people do not commit crimes because they see them as moraly wrong either individually or by proxy of their peers, not because they fear the punishment.
The death penalty is not in my estimation a deterent to someone who is planning to commit murder or commits murder unpremeditatedly - their morals are clearly different to those of your average person and therefore judging a punishment as deterent based on normal morals won't work.

The way to tackle murder rates is not through increasing punishment .... but by prevention. Prevention in terms of looking at the social causes. Increasing living standards and the desparity between rich and poor, and better social understand and justice will do a damn site more to reduce crime rates across the board than any totalitarian regime ever could.
...and there are plenty of proven corelations to back that up

It is much easier to appeal to peoples fears, paranioas, and misguided ideas with political spin and self righteousness ...... but so far this has not seemed to work .... funnily enough.

*note - that's leaveing aside all the moral and ethical issues of the death penalties, costs, miscarriages of justice etc.

PJTX100 · 27-07-2008, 2:11 PM

An interesting debate. A lot of which I don't disagree with. But as well as the complex social and moral debate, which has been debated many times, there are also the simpler aspects too.

If a murderer is put to death, they can't murder again.

But on the other hand.

If a killer is cornered, will they kill more because they have nothing to lose?

Will either of these factors outweigh the other I wonder?

Mr Incredible · 27-07-2008, 2:17 PM

And if an innocent person is executed, they can't appeal the sentence.

PJTX100 · 27-07-2008, 2:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Incredible

And if an innocent person is executed, they can't appeal the sentence.

I did consider adding that but didn't want to dilute what I was asking.

And you have to remember, an innocent person is killed in all these incidents.

Mr Incredible · 27-07-2008, 2:37 PM

There are more wise, erudite and clever men than me. I think this sums it up pretty well.

"One is absolutely sickened, not by the crimes that the wicked have committed, but by the punishments that the good have inflicted; and a community is infinitely more brutalized by the habitual employment of punishment than it is by the occasional occurrence of crime."
Oscar Wilde.

**Steven** · 27-07-2008, 2:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJTX100

An interesting debate. A lot of which I don't disagree with. But as well as the complex social and moral debate, which has been debated many times, there are also the simpler aspects too.

If a murderer is put to death, they can't murder again.

But on the other hand.

If a killer is cornered, will they kill more because they have nothing to lose?

Will either of these factors outweigh the other I wonder?

Interesting, because we are now on the blurred line between punishment and prevention

It has been documented that statistically most homicide crimes are committed by a relative or a person close to the deceased. It is arguable whether in a "crime of passion" you could deduce a risk of re-offending

Indeed the law commission in its review has suggested going the American route and reclassifying crimes under the umbrella term of "homicide" under different degrees. Would you for example show leniency towards an assistant to a euthanasia case? Of course, no mention of the death penalty being reinstated

*dakara* · 27-07-2008, 3:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Incredible

There are more wise, erudite and clever men than me. I think this sums it up pretty well.

"One is absolutely sickened, not by the crimes that the wicked have committed, but by the punishments that the good have inflicted; and a community is infinitely more brutalized by the habitual employment of punishment than it is by the occasional occurrence of crime."
Oscar Wilde.

Oscar Wilde was a Homosexual. so he would take that attitude, since in his day, buggery was considered a crime.

One of the most unjust punishments in those days, was when some sad person attempted to commit suicide, and failed, they were then charged, and clapped in jail, as a punishment.

Mr Incredible · 27-07-2008, 3:25 PM

What has his sexuality to do with making a statement about the punishment meted out to those who perpetrated "wicked" crimes? Do you think OScar Wilde considered himself to have committed a wicked crime? I think not.

*avinitski* · 27-07-2008, 4:10 PM

would be great to see a Saturday night TV prime time slot for a national phone in on who should get executed, viewers would be presented on screen with each 'contestants' rap sheet, viewers get an hour to vote by either text or phone, then because of programming schedules the 'winning contestant' has around 30mins till he makes his maker because 8 out of 10 cats is on, once finished its back to the main event.

all proceeds go to victims of crime.

Mr Incredible · 27-07-2008, 4:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avinitski

would be great to see a Saturday night TV prime time slot for a national phone in on who should get executed, viewers would be presented on screen with each 'contestants' rap sheet, viewers get an hour to vote by either text or phone, then because of programming schedules the 'winning contestant' has around 30mins till he makes his maker because 8 out of 10 cats is on, once finished its back to the main event.

all proceeds go to victims of crime.

Just modify the format of Big Brother slightly... Eviction .... Execution. Works for me!

Ayub · 27-07-2008, 4:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggles1958

and those 'exporting' insurgents and arms into Iraq are heroes?

what a screwed up country

sooner its crushed the better imo!

stands back and accepts flack from pro Iran fan club/Israel haters/Taleb supporters!!

Miyazaki · 27-07-2008, 4:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayub

You and me both, that dude seems pretty delusional.

*The Dude* · 27-07-2008, 4:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJTX100

If a killer is cornered, will they kill more because they have nothing to lose?

If criminals were fighting for their lives as opposed to fighting for their freedom, would you want to be a copper?

dan54 · 27-07-2008, 5:24 PM

No-one should be executed for any crime, its not up to us to take someones life whatever they have done.If you strip it back, when you are pro execution you are calling for someone to be murdered-makes you nearly as bad imo.When someone is murdered the purpretator should be jailed for life-meaning life 'til they die with no parole as the dead person gets no chance to be free again.Trouble is nowadays the judges seem to be out of touch with reality and seem to think 15-20 years is ok for murder,now that would be fine if dead people came back to life but last time I looked no-one has ever been freed from death.