[Chrisoldinho]

Yup it's that time of day .

Anyone see the program on the BBC last night of the man/women with 20 children, claiming a whopping £27,000 in benefits on Incapacity & Child Benefit - Admittadly £27,000 between 20 kids and 2 adults (both who smoked and 1 was an alcoholic) isn't much to go around. But still, 20 kids...Jesus wept.

The man needs a vasectomy or sex education!

Chris.

[RugbyAl]

Watched some of this last night thinking "That'll be a thread on the forum by the morning!"

[Chrisoldinho]

Originally Posted by RugbyAl

Watched some of this last night thinking "That'll be a thread on the forum by the morning!"

You knew it'd be me that's moan about this too

Anyway, i'll forgo my usual prejudice remarks on this one as I think the documentary said it all really

Chris.

[johntheexpat]

Originally Posted by Chrisoldinho

Anyway, i'll forgo my usual prejudice remarks on this one as I think the documentary said it all really

Chris.

Please don't. I didn't get to see it, so feel free to give me a complete rundown.

Thanks.

J.T.E.P.

[mjn]

20 kids? Thats a full time job in itself, and while £27k is not many for 22 people, i'm guessing they get a huge council house.

Still, i think they should be taught how to use contraception.

[alteredego]

I don't care what benefits they get.. I was more shocked when the dad was playing 'split the kipper' with his kids in the park

[Chrisoldinho]

Originally Posted by alteredego

I don't care what benefits they get.. I was more shocked when the dad was playing 'split the kipper' with his kids in the park

Yes, that was truly unbelievable. Compounded by the fact he was an Alcoholic with epilepsy.

The house was a complete mess. A lot of the kids didn't have a bed to sleep on and the living conditions were truly awful IMO. How social services didn't get involved I don't know...

[sim667]

whats split the kipper?

[Chrisoldinho]

Originally Posted by sim667

whats split the kipper?

http://strange-games.blogspot.com/20...th-knives.html

[krish]

Originally Posted by sim667

whats split the kipper?

just looked it up on Google and it could be a sexual term, or more likely this from Wiki ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumblety_peg
Split the Kipper involves each player throwing the knife at the other player - that player must move only one foot to where the knife lands, leaving the other planted. They bend down and pick up the knife, leaving their feet planted. The object is get the other player's legs far apart (in a "Split") so that they cannot move their feet to the knife without becoming unbalanced. No part of the body except the feet are allowed to touch the ground at any time.

[alteredego]

Originally Posted by Chrisoldinho

Yes, that was truly unbelievable. Compounded by the fact he was an Alcoholic with epilepsy.

The house was a complete mess. A lot of the kids didn't have a bed to sleep on and the living conditions were truly awful IMO. How social services didn't get involved I don't know...

I was thinking the same to be honest. I couldn't help but think what sort of future their kids could look forward too with their parents for rolemodels. I admired the one lass going to the library so she could do her homework in peace.

I make no judgment on people having loads of kids or living on benefits. As long as the money they get is spent providing the best for the children and not on booze and fags.

[SimonH]

Originally Posted by krish

just looked it up on Google and it could be a sexual term, or more likely this from Wiki ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumblety_peg
Split the Kipper involves each player throwing the knife at the other player - that player must move only one foot to where the knife lands, leaving the other planted. They bend down and pick up the knife, leaving their feet planted. The object is get the other player's legs far apart (in a "Split") so that they cannot move their feet to the knife without becoming unbalanced. No part of the body except the feet are allowed to touch the ground at any time.

Used to be called "Splits" in my day, was very common, swiss army knives came out a lunch break and away you go. Strangely very rarely if ever resulted in injury.

[funkyspider]

I'm sure the program was edited to show the worst bits, but the state they lived in was appauling and god only knows what the house was like when they were without water for a couple of weeks (because the pipes were stolen - all eyes turn to the 15yr old lad who made money by stealing lead and copper). The living conditions reminded me of watching chimps in an enclosure at a zoo, where the all huddle together to sleep.

One of the girls (about 11-ish) got a telling off of sorts from the 'father' for stealing and in her defence she exclaimed "but it was only from shops". The family rule was that stealing was fine, but never steal from the family.

Whilst being quite shocked that people who aren't 'squatters' live in those conditions it did make me think how lucky I am to have had a good honest upbringing, being taught standards and values that are acceptable in society enabling me to get a good job.

I'm sure clips will appear on Youtube before long.

[mad_matt]

Well this just sums up the whole problem with the welfare system. Its stories like this that makes me boil, we need to introduce selective breeding programs, if you can't afford kids then you dont get to have them, why should my hard earned cash pay for two human rabbits!!!

They should have been sterilized after the 3rd rug muncher...

[JohnG]

Don't forget that's 27K take home pay, think how much you'd have to earn before tax to bring home that much. This country seems to reward scum these days

[Chrisoldinho]

For those of you who missed it. It's available on BBC iPlayer if you can stand to watch it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/homepage/d/i...html?src=ip_mp

Chris.

[RugbyAl]

Originally Posted by JohnG

Don't forget that's 27K take home pay, think how much you'd have to earn before tax to bring home that much. This country seems to reward scum these days

And rent and council tax all paid for as well.....

[RugbyAl]

Originally Posted by mjn

20 kids? Thats a full time job in itself,

The 'parents' were doing very little themselves, a fourteen yr old lad was shown putting his 5 yr old brother to bed! The older kids were expected to look after the younger siblings

The only positive thing I saw in the programme were the obvious bonds between brothers and sisters...

[Chrisoldinho]

I'm completely against this kind of abuse to the system of course and as most people are well aware i'm not the most popular person when it comes to my opinions on benefits

However, if you split £27,000 between 22 people and you get £1227.27 to live on per year per person. Now divide that by 52 and they get a grand total of £23.60 per week to live on. Still it's all free, but it really isn't that much given that one is an Alcoholic and I would imagine could spend that every day on beer and they both smoke.

I'm not condoning their actions in anyway here. Just stating the economics of their situation.

Chris.

[audionewb]

Haven't watched it yet, so these views are on situations like this in general.

The welfare system is for falling back on, not leaning back on.

I also agree that you should only have children that you can support and that people should be forcibly sterilised for the benefit of society, that may sound harsh but i doubt most of these kids are going to be of benefit to society when they grow up, indeed the situation they exist in will be the type they will knowingly or unknowingly try to recreate in adult lfe, families like these do not see anything wrong. i work in an area with families like that although not as extreme and if you see some of the absurd situations they find themselves in you realise they do not notice anything abnormal about them, it is just life.

I am not trying to creat an argument just sayinng that as a society you have to curb people's personal choices if they have a destructive effect upon it's fabric.

[CH_Peter]

Originally Posted by mad_matt

Well this just sums up the whole problem with the welfare system. Its stories like this that makes me boil, we need to introduce selective breeding programs, if you can't afford kids then you dont get to have them, why should my hard earned cash pay for two human rabbits!!!

They should have been sterilized after the 3rd rug muncher...

You've got at least two brain cells to rub together and maybe even a third that you can lend out at weekends. They, unfortunately, lack education. They have no idea about the wider picture or the impact on society. The exist on a different plane of reality from you and me. They can't see how badly off they are, how wrong they are, amoral they are or their place in society as seen by others.

[sim667]

Oooh i have played split the kipper before.

[Chrisoldinho]

Random idea of the day

Prehaps instead of some of the radical thoughts here a rational programme could be implemented through for everybody. Similar to the way China's system works however prehaps not quite as cut & shut.

You get 100% support for your 1st and 2nd Child, 50% support for your Third and nothing thereafter.

I understand that this could impact on families who do work hard and want children (I am one of 3 in my family) hence it would need to be a lot more thought out than this but I am just using an example of a system that could help reduce child benefit claims.

[FruitBat]

It's not a perfect world, but I prefer living in a country where my taxes are used to support this sort of family (however undeserved). Better than somewhere that advocates eugenics or forced sterilisation or leaving people to fend for themselves.

[Sonic67]

I'd prefer a society where we pay for a few kids but eventually we say enoughs enough. At some point the guy must have decided why should I be responsible, the state will always pay. If not him then the women involved. Right now there's no need for them to worry they could always have more and more.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by audionewb

as a society you have to curb people's personal choices if they have a destructive effect upon it's fabric.

Why stop at sterilizing poor people as I'm sure that there are many other groups of minorities that some would say have a destructive effect on the fabric of society so let's sterlize them all whilst we're at it.

[johntheexpat]

If the father is such a lazy slob, why not encourage him to play split the kipper while sitting on the ground? That way one poor throw of the knife and no more kids....

[FruitBat]

Jonathan Swift came up with a solution to this problem nearly 300 years ago...

Modest Proposal

[audionewb]

Maybe you think it is too far, but where do we draw the line?

society is too big nowaday's. We can absorb too much destructive behaviour whereas a smaller society would crumble.

Breeding too much, smoking/drinking/anti-social behaviour. they are all connected and measures need to be taken to curb these. Education is a key but at the same time there is too much of a "if they don't want to learn, what can we do" attitude. We need to force people to do things that will benefit society.

if parents will not take responsibility for the actions and educations for their kids then they should be punished, severly. action needs to be taken.

[CH_Peter]

Originally Posted by FruitBat

Jonathan Swift came up with a solution to this problem nearly 300 years ago...

Modest Proposal

Since that involved reading at least 5 pages before you got to his proposal, your post might be wasted here.