Lost my job today-Quick legal stance

*Bren* · 07-07-2008, 3:11 PM

Just need some quick legal advice. I have had a few 'informal' chats & one verbal warning in May 2007 regarding the number of mistakes i have made at work. Today i was called in the office & told my employment was being terminated. Now my Boss actually said its not legal so i can pursue a legal claim & he will face the consequences. Now don't get me wrong i have been wanting to get out for a long time so i am glad of the push, so i would not want my job back anyway. However unless i find something fast its going to be tough so what can of outcome is likely if i pursue the legal side.

shahedz · 07-07-2008, 3:16 PM

Really, really odd your boss told you that but still sacked you. Unique ( one of the Mods) is really educated in this field of Law, maybe you could drop him a PM.

Also contact your CAB would be my advice

Sad099 · 07-07-2008, 3:19 PM

If they are terminating your employment - and they know its wrong - why not ask them to make you redundant instead ie pay you off.

Surely they must know if this is not legal and it goes to tribunal they will have to pay out anyway ?

Ask them to save the bother of the legal action and settle ?

What does your HR say about it ?

Mr Incredible · 07-07-2008, 3:23 PM

Statutory redundancy pay is not that much: just over £300 for each year of service IIRC. Under two years service and redundancy pay is at the discretion of the employer.

Sad099 · 07-07-2008, 3:33 PM

yes but remember - they acknowledge this is not legal .

If this is proven at Tribunal (unfait dismissal) they will have to pay out a considerable amount - they have also stated they are prepared to face the consequences (ie agree to pay out the compensation etc).

If they are prepared to do this and the OP does no want to take this to legal (and they have stated they wanted out anyway) then coming to some agreement would be the best option - would it not ?

Obviously if the company are not prepared to deal (or make a silly offer) then take this to tribunal and get your entitlement.

As mentioned though just seek some legal advice through CAB (over the phone etc) to see what your options are.

Also as mentioned speak to your HR dept - surely they must have something to say about this ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Incredible

Statutory redundancy pay is not that much: just over £300 for each year of service IIRC. Under two years service and redundancy pay is at the discretion of the employer.

*Bren* · 07-07-2008, 3:39 PM

I was there just under 2 years & its a family run firm with no hr dept as such just the wages done by his wife. I cannot offer to take redundancy as they terminated my employment this morning with immediate effect.

Mr Incredible · 07-07-2008, 3:48 PM

If you are likely to find alternative employment quickly and your wage was of national average, then as much as one would like to "stick it" to your former employer, the amount of compensation is likely to be peanuts and not worth the agro of going to a tribunal..

Sad099 · 07-07-2008, 3:53 PM

I have to say after finding out a little more - I agree.

But no harm in finding out your position via CAB etc - (cost of a phone call) - if it puts your mind at rest

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Incredible

If you are likely to find alternative employment quickly and your wage was of national average, then as much as one would like to "stick it" to your former employer, the amount of compensation is likely to be peanuts and not worth the agro of going to a tribunal..

alnwrd · 07-07-2008, 4:42 PM

You have employment protection after one year's service not two. THere are procedures which the employer must follow or else the dismissal is automatically unfair. From what you say these procedures have not been followed. Don't let them off lightly, get your full legal compensation. Visit the acas website and read all about it .

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1797

WalkInMyShoes · 07-07-2008, 4:47 PM

Sorry to hear that, may I ask what job you had? I find it strange the employer said that, I would do as alnwrd said just to find out exactly what can be done, As you may need a reference to apply for a new job.

**unique** · 07-07-2008, 5:09 PM

http://www.acas.org.uk/

without knowing the full details of your employment it's hard to give a definitive answer, but you should phone ACAS who can give you the best advice on your options

you can also speak to your local citizens advice buro who can also give advice

you should also make an appointment to claim job seekers allowance immediately, and explain the circumstances to them.

your boss should confirm your termination in writing and give the reasons for termination. i suggest you don't make any further contact with your employer until you have spoken to ACAS and/or CAB for specific advice regarding your case. you should give them a call in the mornig, and call the job centre to make an appointment to see them. you should of course also make some appointments with job agencies to seek new employment elsewhere

due to the length of employment, size of company, and the informal nature of the termination, if they seek further advice they could find that they may be able to offer you as little as two weeks pay in lieu of notice of termination of employment and two weeks statutory redundancy pay (depending on what the terms and conditions of your employment say - ie. your contract). along with that you are due payment for whatever you have worked to date, and unpaid holiday entitlement. thus you may only be entitled to as little as four weeks pay for them to terminate your employment legally and "fairly". if you are paid monthly then it could be a months notice and redundancy pay. ACAS and CAB should be able to clarify this for you

*Bren* · 07-07-2008, 5:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrcon

Sorry to hear that, may I ask what job you had? I find it strange the employer said that, I would do as alnwrd said just to find out exactly what can be done, As you may need a reference to apply for a new job.

I was a skilled Engineer. To be honest they are quite known for being 'sack happy' anyway. If i can get some compensation then that would give me a little breathing space whilst finding alternative employment.

Londondecca · 07-07-2008, 5:46 PM

Don't rely on any money from a Tribunal as I would be impressed if a claim lodged now is heard before Christmas.

Just to reiterate what everyone else has said, phone ACAS or the CAB. The only other advice I can offer is to make detailed notes of everything which happened. Make them today whilst everything is still fresh, don't do it next week or next month but today or tommorow at the very latest. Contemporaneous notes are often valuable pieces of evidence, if you end up in Court.

Treat this is a forced opportunity to find a better career or employer

sim667 · 08-07-2008, 9:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bren

Just need some quick legal advice. I have had a few 'informal' chats & one verbal warning in May 2007 regarding the number of mistakes i have made at work. Today i was called in the office & told my employment was being terminated. Now my Boss actually said its not legal so i can pursue a legal claim & he will face the consequences. Now don't get me wrong i have been wanting to get out for a long time so i am glad of the push, so i would not want my job back anyway. However unless i find something fast its going to be tough so what can of outcome is likely if i pursue the legal side.

I wouldnt rely on money from a tribunal, but i would definately take up leal proceedings, a. they have acknowledged its not legal, b. they have a reputation for being 'sack happy' and c. do they not have to give you more notice than immediate termination unless its gross misconduct?

Im not up on business stuff at all, my attempt at being a freelance photographer failed miserably...... but can businesses have insurance for legal payouts regarding unlawful termination of contracts etc? If so could that be why they have acknowledged its not legal so the insurance can make the payout instead of them?

**unique** · 08-07-2008, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sim667

I wouldnt rely on money from a tribunal, but i would definately take up leal proceedings, a. they have acknowledged its not legal, b. they have a reputation for being 'sack happy' and c. do they not have to give you more notice than immediate termination unless its gross misconduct?

Im not up on business stuff at all, my attempt at being a freelance photographer failed miserably...... but can businesses have insurance for legal payouts regarding unlawful termination of contracts etc? If so could that be why they have acknowledged its not legal so the insurance can make the payout instead of them?

just because they have said it's not legal, doesn't necesarily mean that's true. it simply sounds to me that the employer isn't very knowledgable in employment law and openly admits it

you can get insurance of sorts, but there are usually rules you have to follow to be covered, just like any other insurance policy. the federation of small businesses provide this for example. they have a helpline you can call for all sorts of legal advice, including employment law. if you seek and follow the advice they give and you are taken to a tribunal they can represent you in court, and cover the award if they lose. of course if you follow the advice properly it's rare that a dispute would lead to a tribunal, nevermind a loss. i doubt very much that this employer has any kind of insurance policy, as it sounds to me that following employment law and good practice is not something that concerns them

an employer can pay in lieu of notice, so they can terminate someones job on the spot. this can be quite common, particularly if the employer has good reason not to allow the employee to keep on working when they know they are going to be out of a job shortly

JonMace · 08-07-2008, 12:28 PM

My experience of a Tribunal was that it took 2 years to go through.

Yes a company can have insurance for this, we did.

What was the wording for the reason you were sacked?

Sacking for gross misconduct means the employer does not have to pay any notice period.

Also the fact that you have had a verbal and a written warning will work against you (it is normally accepted that you need 1 verbal and 2 written warnings before being fired, but there is no law that says this is has to be done).

Also before going down the tribunal route, think very carefully if you are in an industry were everyone knows everyone else this will make ity harder for you to get another position.

You also need to discus references with the employer.

SeanT · 08-07-2008, 12:37 PM

He hasn't had a written warning at all - so they must be accusing him of gross misconduct. If they failed to interview him and investigate it and there wasn't a pressing need for instant dismissal they have shot theirselves in the foot.
I took an ex employer to a tribunal (and lost), and have just been offered another job by the same company - go figure!!