[Orson]

Avocet were okay, but they have gone into administration, so supplies are intermittent at best, impossible to get hold of at worse. I've used Avocet locks on many doors, but at the moment, my suppliers won't touch them, just because of the situation I guess.

The good news is there are lots of other anti-snap cylinders out there, and some handles which effectively do the same job.

[Flimber]

I read the article too and knew in advance of it that such incidences in that region - where I am - have madly increased recently and I've been all over eBay today sourcing anti-bump locks. Naturally, we have some mad size which hardly any sellers carry

[akhlaq768]

The cost for the lock and the handle is £20 each, where did u get the £70 price from?

Originally Posted by ldoodle

I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, but also think about the handles as well.

I replaced mine last year with mole-grip resistent ones, as well as PAS24 certification. Changed the cylinders to keyed-alike ones with anti-everything.

Cost me about £70 all in from handlestore.com

Cylinder: Euro Cylinders For uPVC Door Locks Anti-Bump and Anti-Snap Resistance
Handles: HandleStore.com – upvc window handles - upvc door handles

At the end of the day, if someone really wants to get in, they will get in. Short of having nuclear bomb proof doors/windows there's not much you can do - delay them/make them give in yes, entirely stop crazily determined ones no.

[CoolHands]

Originally Posted by Flimber

I read the article too and knew in advance of it that such incidences in that region - where I am - have madly increased recently and I've been all over eBay today sourcing anti-bump locks. Naturally, we have some mad size which hardly any sellers carry

I've researched quite thoroughly and I've decided on Cisa Astral S PAS24 double lock (sometimes just referred to as Cisa Astral S S24). It's a quality make from what I can read and this lock that reaches PAS24 is well made. I'm potentially getting mine from here (no connection to me) Cisa Astral S PAS24 here's the manufacturers pdf info: http://security.ingersollrand.com/bu...PAS24-1109.pdf if you don't mind me asking what size do you need? I've noticed that mine (40-10-40 which is mostly referred to as 45/45 since they don't separate the middle 10mm of the cam from either side) can be changed to 40/50 - this gives the same total but means it will stick out less on the outside (my original is proud by about 7 or 8mm, so this will be reduced to 2 or 3mm) and stick 5mm out more on the inside, which isn't a concern for me. If they're already in your house you've got a problem

the other ones I was considering was Yale just cos they do so much choice with sizes, but to be honest I am less confident in their quality.
yale choices:
Saunderson Security Nickle Plated

as stated I have no connection with that particular lock company.

[IronGiant]

That's a good point you've raised there CoolHands, which is; why do locks protude so much? Surely it's better (more secure) if they are flush, or nearly so?

[KoThreads]

This situation bugs me, you read about it but I have never spoken to anyone whos been burgled in this way, me included. I changed my front door lock for a Garrison anti-snap a few years ago but the nearest size to my lock meant it has 8-10mm proud, there is no hardle on the outside.

Last year I had French doors fitted with anti-bump, anti-snap and huge anti-tamper metal handles and the locks sit flush. When they were installed the fitters said it was a waste of time it's much harder to do than people think, they then pointed out that no matter how many good locks I had the easiest way into my place was the UPVC front door lower panel. After being burgled before by the wooden front door being smashed in where do you stop.

I'm amazed how much those lock prices are in that link. My one was £45 a couple of years ago. No excuse not to get them for piece of mind.

[CoolHands]

true but the handle is thin metal and can be bent up out the way with a screwdriver, so even when it looks flush there is still really a cm sticking out of the actual door; hence why antisnap locks are imperative.

[KoThreads]

Originally Posted by CoolHands

true but the handle is thin metal and can be bent up out the way with a screwdriver, so even when it looks flush there is still really a cm sticking out of the actual door; hence why antisnap locks are imperative.

I saw the handles before they fitted them, they look ugly but the lower bit that holds the lock is solid metal. The two bolts holding it on which screw through the aluminium door from the inside would have to be snapped. Think it would take a hammer and cold chisel. Not saying it's impossible though.

[darkwinter87]

We had an attempted break in a few weeks ago. We have a uPVC door with a standard lock and you wouldnt believe how fast and easy it was for them to break the lock and pull the barrel out.

Funny thing was i was in at the time with music playing the lights on and it was 5 in the afternoon and the door is easy to see from loads of houses, yet they still tried it and took the lock out. I was in the basement at the time working out and all i heard was 2 loudish bangs which sounded like a foot ball had hit the door. They didnt come in as they must have realised i was in and ran off, but at this point the locks broke and im locked in haha. All they needed was a decent pair of pliers and a screw driver

[Flimber]

There are plenty of videos on YT of Euro cylinders being bumped, snapped and picked. It looks really easy and needn't be all that noisy. Can be done in 10 seconds.

Mike.

[ldoodle]

Originally Posted by akhlaq768

The cost for the lock and the handle is £20 each, where did u get the £70 price from?

Firstly what you quote is wrong. It's £20 for the handle plus £11 for the cylinder, which makes £31. Plus I done front and back doors, so that's £62.

Plus VAT = about £70.

[ldoodle]

Just out of interest, has anyone replaced their locks/handles, still been broken into and then been told by their insurance that because you fitted them you're not covered?

I would imagine if I changed my boiler and/or consumer unit and my house blew up, that my insurance wouldn't cover me?

[IronGiant]

I very much doubt it

Fingers crossed.

Unless you had to specify the exact locks you had when you took out the policy I can't see it being an issue. Particularly not if you've upped security.

[jonp0well]

isn't it simpler just to have locks that have key access on the inside of the doors but blanking plates on the outside? I have never used the locks on the rear of our house & if ever we were locked out I would get spare keys for the front door which are held by some friends of ours. this would mean no bumping, snaping or picking of locks possible. Any reason not to use this approach?

[paulyoung666]

Originally Posted by jonp0well

isn't it simpler just to have locks that have key access on the inside of the doors but blanking plates on the outside?

How do you get in the house then ? ....

[jonp0well]

If locked outside we use a key on the front door.
If at the back with the back doors unlocked (no need to lock back doors if we are in the garden) then using the door handle. I don't see why the back doors need locks that are accessible from the outside.

[Sad099]

But then wouldn't the would be burglars just come in through the front door then ?

I suppose you remove one entry point but I'm not sure it adds much value tbh

Originally Posted by jonp0well

If locked outside we use a key on the front door.
If at the back with the back doors unlocked (no need to lock back doors if we are in the garden) then using the door handle. I don't see why the back doors need locks that are accessible from the outside.

[jonp0well]

The doors at the back are hidden from view, front door is seen by anyone on the street & has proper deadlocks so harder to make break in attempt.
I'm just trying to get around the bumping, snapping issues on door locks that seem to be a main route into peoples homes. No externally accessible euro lock means no need to decide which manufactureres locks really are anti-bump, anti-snap etc.

[Sad099]

just check with insurance I guess , just to be sure they dont have have problem with it - otherwise sounds like that will work for you.

Originally Posted by jonp0well

The doors at the back are hidden from view, front door is seen by anyone on the street & has proper deadlocks so harder to make break in attempt.
I'm just trying to get around the bumping, snapping issues on door locks that seem to be a main route into peoples homes. No externally accessible euro lock means no need to decide which manufactureres locks really are anti-bump, anti-snap etc.

[IronGiant]

Originally Posted by jonp0well

If locked outside we use a key on the front door.
If at the back with the back doors unlocked (no need to lock back doors if we are in the garden) then using the door handle. I don't see why the back doors need locks that are accessible from the outside.

They don't, but I think most of us are discussing uPVC Front doors that do have Eurolocks

[KoThreads]

I did have two patio doors at the back that only had the short one side eurocylinder. From outside there's only a pull handle, no visible locks. Now ones replaced by the french door with two locks visible. I asked if there was a French door with no outside locks but no. With no rear garden access there has never been a time that the doors would ever have needed locking. Can't understand why there isn't this option anymore. It's way safer.

[Orson]

Originally Posted by KoThreads

I did have two patio doors at the back that only had the short one side eurocylinder. From outside there's only a pull handle, no visible locks. Now ones replaced by the french door with two locks visible. I asked if there was a French door with no outside locks but no. With no rear garden access there has never been a time that the doors would ever have needed locking. Can't understand why there isn't this option anymore. It's way safer.

Unfortunately, you've been given duff information. There are short euro cylinders, and 'blank' handles (with no key hole). Both are fairly easily obtainable, and can generally be fitted to any PVCu door.

[KoThreads]

Originally Posted by Orson

Unfortunately, you've been given duff information. There are short euro cylinders, and 'blank' handles (with no key hole). Both are fairly easily obtainable, and can generally be fitted to any PVCu door.

No I didn't explain it properely. I could have had blank handles that covered the locks, what I wanted was the doors made with no locks outside at all, like my patio doors are.

[SIRUSKEY]

Its not as bigger issue with new upvc as it is with the older stuff. As long as the outer cylinder is concealed your fine. Mine is concealed by the handle casing and it would be a pig to get off from the outside. If they are going to smash all the casing off to get to the cylinder they are coming in no matter what.

[Orson]

Originally Posted by KoThreads

No I didn't explain it properely. I could have had blank handles that covered the locks, what I wanted was the doors made with no locks outside at all, like my patio doors are.

Sorry, I thought you wanted to retro fit them.

However, the same thing applies when manufacturing, you simply don't machine all the way through the PVC section, so from the outside, the door sash is unmarked/unbroken/no holes, and you can fit a blank handle if required. On the inside you fit a standard handle and half cylinder.

We fitted 2 sets of doors on a property last month exactly as you described, only they wanted no handle at all on the outside, so that's what they got.

[paulyoung666]

Originally Posted by Orson

We fitted 2 sets of doors on a property last month exactly as you described, only they wanted no handle at all on the outside, so that's what they got.

So what happens if the door shut when they were outside and the keys were locked inside ?

[Orson]

Originally Posted by paulyoung666

So what happens if the door shut when they were outside and the keys were locked inside ?

If in an ordinary situation, they would struggle! Although the doors won't be locked, they'll still be on a latch, so you still couldn't open them from the outside.

However, the ones we fitted going to be against a balustrade (giving a similar situation to a 'Juliette' balcony) so there wouldn't really be any prospect of going outside from in the house. Therefore the customer thought that as there was no point in having handles outside, the doors would look better without them. So we obliged

But I know where you're coming from, I'd strongly advise against not having a handle on the outside, even if used with a half cylinder, for exactly that reason.

[paulyoung666]

Originally Posted by Orson

But I know where you're coming from, I'd strongly advise against not having a handle on the outside, even if used with a half cylinder, for exactly that reason.

Fire brigade anyone lol ..