[ohoward]

Hi,

There seem to be alot of knowledgeable people on these boards and I'm after a little advice on telescopes.

I have a budget of approxiamately £500 for an astronomical telescope, but as an amateur find the whole field confusing. I have managed to come up with a couple of likely candidates that fit my budget, as well as meeting the criteria that they must have a GOTO mount and some sort of auto alignment.

Meade ETX 90

Celestron Nexstar 4 SE

Any advice on these two 'scopes, plus suggestions on others that meet my criteria grarefully recieved.

Thanks.

[graham.myers]

I have a nexstar 5. Havent used it this year but when its out its quite good. eats batteries though so you will need a weatherproof power extension as the overnight dew can be quite mean to any electrical sockets

[Jenn]

My husband and I have just decided to go into astronomy.

At first we bought a new Celestron Nexstar 60 SLT cheap on Ebay just to have a play outside with. It arrived yesterday so we haven't had a chance to play with it yet.

But we started to read into things (as you do ) and it took all but 2 days for us to buy a Celestron Nexstar 4
It's due to arrive today or tomorrow so I can't tell you yet if it's great but according to reviews it's a good one.

The Meade ones are more expensive than the Celestron ones but apparently it's all because of the name. Also people say the Meade GOTO is useless (I can't personally comment on that though) hence why we went for Celestron.

One thing you may went to include in your purchases are decent eyepieces and diagonal. Plossl eyepieces apparently make a whole world of difference compared to cheap ones.

We'll be trying to take pictures so we also got camera adapters and might have to get an SLR camera or the Celestron CCD camera.

[Jenn]

Originally Posted by graham.myers

I have a nexstar 5. Havent used it this year but when its out its quite good. eats batteries though so you will need a weatherproof power extension as the overnight dew can be quite mean to any electrical sockets

You can get a Celestron Power Tank, 12v Power Supply for aroun £40.

[ohoward]

Originally Posted by Jenn

One thing you may went to include in your purchases are decent eyepieces and diagonal. Plossl eyepieces apparently make a whole world of difference compared to cheap ones.

This is one of the reasons I am considering the Meade. At the moment you get a free 12 piece eyepiece set worth £400 with any ETX at most retailers. I too have heard about the problems with Meade's Autostar, seems a bit hit and miss to me.

On the other hand the Celestrons offer larger apertures at around the same price, but eyepieces will set me back another few hundred, and I'd like to get up and running for £500.

Thanks for info and advice so far.

[graham.myers]

At the time I bought the cele 5 I wanted a Meade - this is 5 ir 6 years ago. However a shop in the florida mall was having a going out of business sale and the celestron was around 1/2 price so I couldnt resist

I bought only 2 or 3 eye pieces from a shop in Newcastle - I'll try and dig out the website if they have one

The plossls were not expensive - maybe £29 - I only spent about £90 tops

[Jenn]

We bought our eyepiece from this guy http://www.skysthelimit.org.uk/

He's on Ebay as well under skies_unlimited. He was very helpful and friendly. Received good advice.

The Nexstar 4 you should be able to get for £325-£340 so it leaves you with £175 to buy accessories which is plenty enough. We paid £45 in total for a Plossl eyepiece, a 2x Barlow and a camera T ring.
Or you can buy the Celestron EyeOpener Eyepiece/Filter accessory kit for about £120.

All in all both options come to about the same price so it's a choice between the goto systems and also the size as the Meade is 90mm and the Celestron 102mm.

[Steve N]

Originally Posted by ohoward

........There seem to be alot of knowledgeable people on these boards and I'm after a little advice on telescopes........

If you are anywhere near Cambridge this place Here is worth a visit.
The staff are very helpful.

[ohoward]

Thanks for the help so far.

I'm also now considering the Celestron Nexstar 130 STL and the Skywatcher Explorer 130PM.

I never thought I'd have so much trouble choosing a scope, although i am now leaning more in favour of the Celestron Nexstar 4SE.

Jenn, once you have used your scope I'd really appreciate some ideas of what can be seen with it, maybe some images as you are going to be photographing as well.

Thanks.

[graham.myers]

one thing I found with my nexstar 5 was what you could actually see. its not a very powerful scope and obviously the 4 is the next step down.

The expectations after seeing some great hubble pictures were high and its somewhat of a comedown with a 5"er or 4"er

I could resolves the rings of Saturn and see the great spot on jupiter. I can make out the orion nebula etc. I never really looked at the moon ao cant comment on the quality of looking at that.

For photography though, some of the stunning pictures you see are heavily processed and bare no resemblence to the original images even the Hubble sends back. A lot of the pictures you see are an amalgamation of several wavelengths -light, infra-red, X-Ray and then falsely coloured.

[Jenn]

I'll probably be having a go this weekend weather permitting (scope arriving today hopefully) so I'll let you know my first impressions.

I won't be doing pictures just yet though as I haven't decided on the imaging equipment to get.
There are people who have some pictures though:
Moon
Mars

Photos of various things with various telescopes Many are with very good telescopes but you might find a few with the telescopes you are considering.

[Nimby]

There are all levels of seriousness about astronomy.
A first telescope is a difficult choice.
If you are serious about observing planets then you should look at the Orion UK website and consider a quality 6" Newtonian from them.
Mirror 'scopes smaller than 6" have been ignored for years by keen amateurs.
A 4" or 6" refractor is worth having but not a reflector in these sizes. The mirror/reflector type has the disadvantage of a large secondary mirror blocking the light. The lens/refractor type has none.
That said, you do get the smaller computerized thing to find the planets and other objects for you.
Just a shame that the quality of the image and its brightness are so limited.
Ideally you want a bigger telescope that does the pointing. That costs more money.
The aperture (diameter of the lens or mirror) is the vital statistic in providing the necessary resolving power to see fine detail on the planets.
The bigger mirror or lens also provides enough light to see galaxies and nebulae more clearly.
The problem is that bigger telescopes are bulkier, heavier and usually much more expensive for the same quality.
The quality of the optics is even more important than the size of the optics.
The simple 6" high quality Newtonian reflector buys you the the best compromise of price:aperture as a starter telescope.
It still needs you to point it at a dark sky with which you are totally unfamiliar.

[ohoward]

Originally Posted by graham.myers

one thing I found with my nexstar 5 was what you could actually see. its not a very powerful scope and obviously the 4 is the next step down.

The expectations after seeing some great hubble pictures were high and its somewhat of a comedown with a 5"er or 4"er

I could resolves the rings of Saturn and see the great spot on jupiter. I can make out the orion nebula etc. I never really looked at the moon ao cant comment on the quality of looking at that.

For photography though, some of the stunning pictures you see are heavily processed and bare no resemblence to the original images even the Hubble sends back. A lot of the pictures you see are an amalgamation of several wavelengths -light, infra-red, X-Ray and then falsely coloured.

I'm certainly not expecting to see anything like what Hubble can produce! If anything, my expectations are quite low: being able to see the ice caps on Mars, resolve the rings of Saturn and see the Great Red spot on Jupiter, as well as some of the brighter DSOs will be enough for me!

Nimby, I have tasken a look at the Orion site and unfortunately they are overpriced for my moderate budget. Some of the Vixen instruments they are selling there are beautiful though. I do appreciate your input.

Also added to the list is the Skywatcher Skymax 127. Surely the list should be getting shorter?

[Jenn]

Originally Posted by ohoward

Also added to the list is the Skywatcher Skymax 127. Surely the list should be getting shorter?

Do the Skywatcher have a goto mount?

[ohoward]

Hi Jenn,

No GOTO on those particular Skywatchers but they do have motorised tracking/slew. I am somewhat tempted to sacrifice GOTO for larger aperture, despite my previous efforts at finding objects manually being a complete disaster.

Alot of purists would no doubt have my guts for garters for saying this but I am kind of after 'instant gratification' and I feel I could learn the night sky just as well with GOTO, the option of using it would be nice.

[Jenn]

Originally Posted by ohoward

Hi Jenn,

No GOTO on those particular Skywatchers but they do have motorised tracking/slew. I am somewhat tempted to sacrifice GOTO for larger aperture, despite my previous efforts at finding objects manually being a complete disaster.

Alot of purists would no doubt have my guts for garters for saying this but I am kind of after 'instant gratification' and I feel I could learn the night sky just as well with GOTO, the option of using it would be nice.

The reason we went for the nexstar is exactly because we wanted the easy option to start with.
It won't stop us from finding objects on our own for sure but it wouldn't be nice to spend that kind of money to be disappointed if we can't find decent stuff.

[Nimby]

I certainly wouldn't criticise anybody for going for a compact telescope with computer pointing.
Particularly if you suffer typical orange sky which makes finding anything but the moon difficult.

The darker your sky the more you will see with a smaller aperture because the contrast isn't washed out by street lamps.

A small telescope is more likely to be used than a huge white elephant simply because of the effort in setting up a larger instrument.
So make your setting up easy as possible before you lose the initial enthusiasm.

Dress warmly. There's nothing worse than being freezing to put you off astronomy for life. A duvet/down jacket is a good investment and quite affordable now they are fashionable instead of specialist mountain gear. Bobble hats cuts down on heat loss from the head. Nobody can see you in the dark so wear what you like just to stay warm.

There are a couple of specialist astronomical small ads websites where one can stretch a tight budget considerably with secondhand gear. There are always people getting the astronomy bug and then losing interest. Or even upgrading.

The first is directly accessible and searchable:

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/index.php

The second is more like a forum and demands that you join before you can see the ads.

http://www.astronomy-uk.co.uk/

Seriously consider contacting your local astronomy club or association. You will usually get good advice even if you don't join. Most telescope owners are delighted to show off their instrument to whet your appetite and give you a true idea what to expect form different instruments. There is usually a telescope or two for sale within a club about which you can get expert independent advice before buying.

[ohoward]

Thank you for your advice nimby.

I wonder if I could trouble you for some more specific buying advice though?

I'll give you a run down of my revised requirements if that's ok with you:

1) £500 budget MAX for scope plus eyepieces/lenses.

2) Size/portability/set up time is an issue for me, as is the time it will take to find objects (see point 4 below). I have limited storage space and two small children so I need to be able to store it in a small space, be able to carry it outside down two flights of stairs and be able to set up/ pack up quickly.

3) I would like to be able to view the planets as well as some DSO's.

4) I would like GOTO, but understand this adds considerable cost. I am coming round to the idea it might not be essential, but it would be nice!

Based on those requirements, can you make me any specific suggestions? Can you advse on a good dealer as well?

Many thanks in advance.

[Nimby]

I'm afraid I'm right out of date of what's happening these days and don't even live in the UK any more. I have never been involved in GOTO so cannot advise at all.

If I was you I'd search online for your nearest astronomy club and get in touch with the contact person for some up to date advice. Explain you are a beginner and want to know where to start. You don't have to join and may be allowed to look through various instruments before making a decision.

I am a great believer in quality secondhand equipment which has been well looked after or stored safely away without much use. Two of my refractors were bought secondhand online from the UK as were the separate mountings and several eyepieces. Even paying through the nose for postage from the UK I couldn't buy new stuff remotely as cheaply. You might get the odd cosmetic blemish but who cares in the pitch dark as long as it works?

Believe me, the world is awash with nice astro equipment which is never used. You can access this stuff at far lower prices than from dealers by using the astro ads websites. Most dealers sell online so you don't get to see the kit before buying anyway. You do get a guarantee but good kit doesn't break anyway unless you drop it onto concrete.

There are loads of Yahoo astronomy groups (mostly American memberships) but sadly the UK Telescopes group dried up and died through lack of support.

Do a Google Search for uk.sci.astronomy. It's full of total nutcases with potty agendas and delusions of grandeur because there is no moderation. But there is still a hardcore of keen amateurs who will help a newcomer to the hobby.

[Jenn]

Right we got the Nexstar 4 yesterday and couldn't wait for the weekend for a try.

First impressions: the scope is small compared to what I imagined (good surprise) and feels quality to me.
It's easy and quick to setup too.

We took it outside quickly (got a 3 months old so we couldn't take the time to do it all properly), there's a spirit level on the tripod to help you set it up (thought that was good) and it was up in no time.
We tried to align the goto but there weren't many bright stars and doing it in the dark quickly we failed. We'll give it a go and take time this weekend.

Mars was out though (or at least I believe it was Mars) so we aligned manually to have a look.
On a 25mm eyepiece it looked nice although you wouldn't see features. It was just like a small disc.
On a 9mm piece it was nicer but still no visible features.
We added the 2x Barlow to the 9mm and could only see a big blob - we then realised that 4.5mm was out of the scope's range - our mistake.
We're waiting for a 6mm piece to arrive which should give us a very good view of the planet.

However we came to the conclusion that the Goto once setup will be very useful if we want to find objects not as obvious as Mars, especially on the most powerful eyepieces.

Final note, it's extremely sensitive; changing the eyepiece was enough to move Mars out of the view.

All in all we're very happy that we managed to see something very quickly without filters and not the best of conditions.

[Nimby]

Jenn

Most beginners don't realise how subtle the markings are on the planets when seen directly through a telescope.
They really are low contrast and nothing like the published images you often see.
One has to learn "to see" by extended practice.

Here's my best image of Mars at closest approach with a handheld digital camera held up to the eyepiece of my 6" refractor.
I have a massive mounting so shake isn't a problem.

This is about the level of contrast you might see under good conditions with a reasonable size of telescope.

[Jenn]

Nimby, this is pretty much what I saw except smaller and with a bit less contrast.

[dng007]

Howard,

I don't own a telescope myself (thought I'd better point that out first! Though I am about to buy one, having done plenty of research myself).

From what I've found out - for your budget I'd probably say not to go GOTO, as it will add considerable;

From speaking to others and reading on various astronomy forums, something likea 6" Reflector would be a good starting point.

You can buy a Celestron C6-N (6") for £200.
The identical 'goto' version is £515!

This would leave you plenty of money for eyepieces, lunar filter, etc.

If size is an issue, you could go down the Schmidt-Cassegrain route - for example the Celestron C6-S (XLT) - but this is more like £500 for non-goto. These telescope's are shorter in length than reflector/refractors. If you stick with the cheaper refractor - I suspect anything bigger than a 6" might be too big/heavy given what you said about going up/down two flights of stairs!

Another astronomy forum I'd used which I don't think anyone's mentioned already is www.stargazerslounge.com - Lots of people who've been in the same boat as you there.

[ohoward]

Got a good deal on a second hand Nexstar 4SE in the end, waiting for it to arrive.

In the end I thought this would be the ideal 'scope for me in terms of features and size. Looking forward to clear skies.

[Nimby]

That's probably the most practical solution where you can't just walk outside on the ground floor onto a secure, dark lawn with anything larger and heavier.

Finding your way around the night sky can be frustrating at first but patience will be well rewarded. Patterns of stars will begin to emerge which will help you to find the pointer stars for setting up Goto.

There is a learning curve to actually seeing objects well and most people take twenty minutes for their eyes to completely dark adapt. So stay away from streetlights as much as possible. Even turning your back on a nuisance streetlight will help. A diode pen torch is useful to find your way around the telescope in the dark if a light is not provided on the remote control.

Remember to dress warmly and seek shelter from any breeze if possible. Even if you stay warm your eyes will water in a breeze making observation difficult.

[ohoward]

Thanks again for the advice nimby.