Another disgusting sentance for bus killer Anthony Joseph

*avinitski* · 21-12-2007, 11:25 AM

It seems every month there is a case that hits the headlines that shocks me, not the crime that was originally committed but the crime of what i see as very lenient sentencing.

news story

7 years....is that all....even if this scum bag serves all his sentence in full he will be out by the he is 30, apparently he had been released from a young offenders institute literally hours before he murdered the guy on the bus, someone like me or you, or a brother or a friend, just an average guy going about his business standing up to a punk like Anthony Joseph.

i dont care if the prisons are full, build more, i dont care if it costs me more through tax or what ever people like Anthony Joseph should be locked up and i personally happy to be charged more so we can keep him locked up.

if i was close to the victim i cant imagine the shock of hearing the killer only got 7 years, knowing that would really hurt me, knowing by the time he is 30 he will be out, sick, very upsetting, what use is he to society, he had a long history of crime probably starting from petty crime and rising to what i see as the ultimate unforgivable crime of murder.

Lezman · 21-12-2007, 11:29 AM

Broadmoor is a mental institution as well- its a bleeding cake walk compared to prison.

I should know- my dad used to play cricket against the inmates within the walls!

andykn · 21-12-2007, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avinitski

lenient sentencing.

news story

7 years....is that all....

Apparently not. Seems to say "indefinte period" and "maximum security".

Not trying to scare us are you?

loz · 21-12-2007, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avinitski

7 years....is that all....

Where does it say 7 years?

*avinitski* · 21-12-2007, 11:48 AM

The news story has been changed 7 minutes after i posted, maybe someone with power read it and was disgusted and made a phone call lol

it defo said 7 years i swear.

andykn · 21-12-2007, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avinitski

The news story has been changed 7 minutes after i posted, maybe someone with power read it and was disgusted and made a phone call lol

it defo said 7 years i swear.

I believe you.

I believe that Sky News try to look good by not second sourcing stories before they publish so they can get them out first. They then look good to those who know no better.

The sentence in this case is predicated on the fact that the man is ill, not evil. You may disagree with that verdict, but without full access to the evidence and the training education and experience to judge psychiatric conditions it's difficult to judge for ourselves.

*avinitski* · 21-12-2007, 11:55 AM

also the word murder has been replaced with manslaughter.

*avinitski* · 21-12-2007, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andykn

I believe you.

I believe that Sky News try to look good by not second sourcing stories before they publish so they can get them out first. They then look good to those who know no better.

The sentence in this case is predicated on the fact that the man is ill, not evil. You may disagree with that verdict, but without full access to the evidence and the training education and experience to judge psychiatric conditions it's difficult to judge for ourselves.

true, but he murdered someone, murder, stabbed in the heart, dead, no one will ever see him again, ill or not he should be locked away.

some people argue that paedophiles are ill too, just the way the brain is wired, its like some people have different fetishes, some people like women in heels lets say, some people like getting dressed up, some people like bondage, some people like their own sex, its not necessarily that they choose to be into different fetishes\tastes is just their brain telling them this, and some peoples brains are wired so they like kids, as wrong as it is some people are like that, suppose it could be the same with murderers too.

**Kieron** · 21-12-2007, 2:23 PM

When cases like this are so clear cut, with witnesses and cctv evidence, plus the admission of the crime then I'm all for capital punishment returning.

Why even bother keeping people like this alive. What purpose do they serve to humanity?

Duncan G · 21-12-2007, 3:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieron

When cases like this are so clear cut, with witnesses and cctv evidence, plus the admission of the crime then I'm all for capital punishment returning.

Why even bother keeping people like this alive. What purpose do they serve to humanity?

Capital punishment did not apply to those who were mentally ill nor did it apply in cases of manslaughter.

andykn · 21-12-2007, 3:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avinitski

true, but he murdered someone, murder, stabbed in the heart, dead, no one will ever see him again, ill or not he should be locked away.

some people argue that paedophiles are ill too, just the way the brain is wired, its like some people have different fetishes, some people like women in heels lets say, some people like getting dressed up, some people like bondage, some people like their own sex, its not necessarily that they choose to be into different fetishes\tastes is just their brain telling them this, and some peoples brains are wired so they like kids, as wrong as it is some people are like that, suppose it could be the same with murderers too.

The law says he killed someone but iot was not murder because he was mentally ill.

Paedophiles, like the rest of us, have the ability to make a choice - the law says that this man was incapable of making the correct choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieron

When cases like this are so clear cut, with witnesses and cctv evidence, plus the admission of the crime then I'm all for capital punishment returning.

Why even bother keeping people like this alive. What purpose do they serve to humanity?

The same purpose any other person to ill to contribute meaningfully to society. As we civilise we decide to care for the broken members of our society and not reject them.

And an indefinite stay in Broadmoor is not a cushy number. He could be incarcerated for far longer than many murderers who have killed for greed.

On the wider subject of Capital Punishment, I recommend "Billy Austin" by Steve Earle, says it all far better than I can.

*avinitski* · 21-12-2007, 3:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andykn

"Billy Austin" by Steve Earle, says it all far better than I can.

is that a song? book? just googled him and he seems to have done a few different things.

**Kieron** · 21-12-2007, 3:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duncan G

Capital punishment did not apply to those who were mentally ill nor did it apply in cases of manslaughter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by andykn

The law says he killed someone but iot was not murder because he was mentally ill.

It's a cracking "get out of jail card" isn't it...

*avinitski* · 21-12-2007, 3:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andykn

The same purpose any other person to ill to contribute meaningfully to society. As we civilise we decide to care for the broken members of our society and not reject them.

are you religious? serious question.

*avinitski* · 21-12-2007, 3:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieron

It's a cracking "get out of jail card" isn't it...

i too would pretend to be crazy if i did something totally mental lol

edit : haha 'mental'....get it?

andykn · 21-12-2007, 3:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avinitski

is that a song? book? just googled him and he seems to have done a few different things.

Its a song on his "Copperhead Road" album.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieron

It's a cracking "get out of jail card" isn't it...

Yeah, spending the rest of your life with other people whose mental balance is disturbed and who are violence prone with no adequate inner control mechanism or maybe 15 years in one of our legendarily cushy jails. I know what I'd rather take. Remind me never to have you as my defence counsel if I get done for murder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by avinitski

are you religious? serious question.

Not at all. Its just if I got damaged such that I couldn't contribute to society, I'd like to be looked after and not thrown away.

**Kieron** · 21-12-2007, 3:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andykn

Yeah, spending the rest of your life with other people whose mental balance is disturbed and who are violence prone with no adequate inner control mechanism or maybe 15 years in one of our legendarily cushy jails. I know what I'd rather take. Remind me never to have you as my defence counsel if I get done for murder.

I'd love to prosecute you though.....

andykn · 21-12-2007, 3:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avinitski

i too would pretend to be crazy if i did something totally mental lol

edit : haha 'mental'....get it?

Some charmer who killed his wife in a fit of rage tried that. Failed. Life for Murder.

stepneg · 21-12-2007, 4:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andykn

The same purpose any other person to ill to contribute meaningfully to society. As we civilise we decide to care for the broken members of our society and not reject them.

The fact their a bit 'mad' shouldn't make any difference it was a savage, unprovoked, booze & drug fueled attack. There are plenty of people suffering from paranoid schizophrenia out and about in society and there not all stabbing people on a regular basis. String him up or leave him in a 6ft by 6ft room with a bucket and throw away the key.

andykn · 21-12-2007, 4:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stepneg

The fact their a bit 'mad' shouldn't make any difference it was a savage, unprovoked, booze & drug fueled attack.

That wasn't the opinion of enough of two juries who had heard all the evidence to convict beyond reasonable doubt. Unlike us who have heard very little.

stepneg · 21-12-2007, 5:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andykn

That wasn't the opinion of enough of two juries who had heard all the evidence to convict beyond reasonable doubt. Unlike us who have heard very little.

I never said it was, thats my opinion and from what I have read and heard, it's pretty obvious. With this current PC attitude it's no wonder no one came to help, forget the crack head with a knife you would be more worried about ending up in court yourself in case you hurt him.

Ethics Gradient · 21-12-2007, 5:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stepneg

I never said it was, thats my opinion and from what I have read and heard, it's pretty obvious. With this current PC attitude it's no wonder no one came to help, forget the crack head with a knife you would be more worried about ending up in court yourself in case you hurt him.

Ever watched 'A beautiful mind' ?

Imagine living with hallucinations and people talking to you that may or may not be real yet you have no way of knowing.

You walk into a pub with your wife, and she starts screaming hysterically and pointing to a man over in the corner saying that he is the one that raped her.

Enraged you go over to confront him and get into a fight, he bangs his head and dies.

..... then in court, the jury are told that you don't actually have a wife, you have never been married, nor was anyone with you when you entered the pub at the time of the crime. You are a paranoid schizophrenic.

We need to protect people and serve justice.
Punishing someone that knowingly does bad is justice.
Protecting and sectioning someone for their own good and that of society when they do harm to themselves or others without knowing what they are doing is justice.

Punishing those that have no idea they are doing wrong or what is real is purely vengeance.

neilios · 21-12-2007, 5:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stepneg

I never said it was, thats my opinion and from what I have read and heard, it's pretty obvious. With this current PC attitude it's no wonder no one came to help, forget the crack head with a knife you would be more worried about ending up in court yourself in case you hurt him.

Most people wouldn't know what to do anyway ,there's no lessons in life on how to deal with this savagery ,poor bloke gets on a bus with his missus and ends up dead ,very sad .

andykn · 21-12-2007, 7:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stepneg

I never said it was, thats my opinion and from what I have read and heard, it's pretty obvious. With this current PC attitude it's no wonder no one came to help, forget the crack head with a knife you would be more worried about ending up in court yourself in case you hurt him.

I never said you said it was.

I'm just saying that those in possession of much more evidence weren't a sure as you. It's wasn't obvious to those who know a lot more than we do. That should tell you something.

**Chaos** · 21-12-2007, 7:08 PM

If a dog went mental and killed someone the dog would be put down. Why not be the same for humans? This man may be ill and not have know what he was doing (or he may have known exactly what he was doing) but even if he didn't know, he is a danger to others and what's to say he won't do the same thing again?

**Kieron** · 21-12-2007, 7:18 PM

I think the *first* question has to be...

Why was this man out on the streets in the first place?

stepneg · 21-12-2007, 7:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethics Gradient

Enraged you go over to confront him and get into a fight, he bangs his head and dies.

..... then in court, the jury are told that you don't actually have a wife, you have never been married, nor was anyone with you when you entered the pub at the time of the crime. You are a paranoid schizophrenic.

Say someone plow's down and kills a member of your family in a stolen car tanked out of their melon on drugs and booze. Then in court they claim diminished responsibility, they are a paranoid schizophrenic after all...

The difference is night and day, the poor guy on the bus didn't exactly slip and bang his head did he.

stepneg · 21-12-2007, 7:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andykn

I never said you said it was.

I'm just saying that those in possession of much more evidence weren't a sure as you. It's wasn't obvious to those who know a lot more than we do. That should tell you something.

Yes it does, there should be a change in the law.

**Kieron** · 21-12-2007, 8:01 PM

Well, I'll re-iterate what I said before. Insane or not, this guy is an animal and I just don't see the point in wasting resources "looking after" him. He offers nothing to humanity, has committed a horrific crime and I just don't see what saving graces there are in keeping him alive.

He'll no doubt spend the rest of his existence in a medically induced drugged filled haze, so why not put him and us out of misery....

Woodywizz · 21-12-2007, 9:23 PM

I agree mate, hang him out to dry,...."diminished responsibility" is a great defence in order to reduce murder to manslaughter. So - you kill someone - then pretend to be la la in order to mitigate the crime and the sentence. But, wait, we have skilled psychologists and psychiatrists who can diagnose those with the real mental problems....yeah, right. If I had killed someone in an unprovoked manner then I too would come over all "One flew over the cuckoo's nest", would this be detected as a lie?...maybe but maybe not.