Has privatization been largely a con?

[la gran siete]

Looking at my water and gas /leccy bills it seems pretty obvious it has been. Since privatisation my water bill has shot up from £80 pa to nigh on £400??? Infrastructure investment? For sure but that could have been done when it was under public control thus avoiding paying huge dividends out and over the top salaries to directors.
gas/ leccy= I am paying £150 pm . Twenty years ago I was paying that for my winter gas QUARTER bill ( leccy was about £80). Normal yearly inflation cannot account for all that increase.We have been ripped off!When I first switched over to my current provider 5 years ago they were the cheapest at 80 pm In that time they have almost doubled their rates and are now the dearest. Changing to the cheapest means a saving of £20 pm if I am lucky.
The Government of the day said it would be cheaper , they said there would be more choice, they said it would be more efficient. Ha bloody ha!Whats the point of choice if its all a rip off??In the old days things were nice and simple . You had one gas and one leccy provider and you bill covered all your energy requirements company overheads and whatever invetsment was needed.Now you are having to pay for massive Directors salary bonus schemes and ever increasing shareholder divis as well. WHAT IS THE POINT??The onl;y reason the Government privatised it wasnt to do us a favour but to take it off their hands and pursue a madcap ideology called Thatcherism.
And thoie who think I never criticise this Government. I do for, continuing this thatcherite balderdash. PFIs set up by them . We shall be paying for them for generations to come.
The private sector is all about profit first and not service- thats secondary

[johntheexpat]

Ahh, the Postmans just been and forgotten to deliver any cards, but didn't forget the bills.

[la gran siete]

Originally Posted by johntheexpat

Ahh, the Postmans just been and forgotten to deliver any cards, but didn't forget the bills.

Direct Debit

[maix27]

I keep thinking along the same lines. Nothing seems to work anymore. Think of the things that should just work: NHS, Postal service, telephone... to name but a few. Everytihng is going to pot.

My favourite is the idea of privatising the prison and probation services... how much of a joke is that?

I want to leave this country, it's going down the pan rapidly (if it hasn't already been flushed).

[Alan_W]

Originally Posted by la gran siete

Looking at my water and gas /leccy bills it seems pretty obvious it has been. Since privatisation my water bill has shot up from £80 pa to nigh on £400??? Infrastructure investment? For sure but that could have been done when it was under public control thus avoiding paying huge dividends out and over the top salaries to directors.
gas/ leccy= I am paying £150 pm . Twenty years ago I was paying that for my winter gas QUARTER bill ( leccy was about £80). Normal yearly inflation cannot account for all that increase.We have been ripped off!When I first switched over to my current provider 5 years ago they were the cheapest at 80 pm In that time they have almost doubled their rates and are now the dearest. Changing to the cheapest means a saving of £20 pm if I am lucky.
The Government of the day said it would be cheaper , they said there would be more choice, they said it would be more efficient. Ha bloody ha!Whats the point of choice if its all a rip off??In the old days things were nice and simple . You had one gas and one leccy provider and you bill covered all your energy requirements company overheads and whatever invetsment was needed.Now you are having to pay for massive Directors salary bonus schemes and ever increasing shareholder divis as well. WHAT IS THE POINT??The onl;y reason the Government privatised it wasnt to do us a favour but to take it off their hands and pursue a madcap ideology called Thatcherism.
And thoie who think I never criticise this Government. I do for, continuing this thatcherite balderdash. PFIs set up by them . We shall be paying for them for generations to come.
The private sector is all about profit first and not service- thats secondary

Every word -spot on. Without mentioning the dog's breakfast that is our Rail "service"

[PoochJD]

Hi,

I totally agree with all of you on this issue! There's not a single "privatised" service that has actually improved, when it wasn't a public service beforehand.

It wasn't that long ago, when if you needed a service, you knew exactly where to go, or who to get in touch with. If it was electric, you phoned your local electric company. For gas, the local gas supplier. Need a telephone, just call BT. Want internet, you looked in a computer/internet magazine, and looked for the one who gave the best price with the best service. (None of this arsing about, as to whether or not you're near to an exchange or not, or whether your area has got the right cabling available.)

Now, you get your electric from the gas company, the internet from the post office, and your phone from the electric company! It's totally farcical! Each time something gets privatised, the only loosers are the great British public!

Any government who decides to re-nationalise any of these "public" services, would almost certainly get my vote.


Pooch

[Mac Man]

Telecoms are cheaper than they have ever been - when you think you can call the US or Australia for not much more than calling your Gran down the street.

As for the other utilities? Water is the worst as you have no choice over your supplier.

yes gas and leccy are much more expensive than 10 years ago... but we have seen massive wholesale increases in energy prices to which the UK is basically hostage to.

If we had good old nuke power in abundance (like the French) our electricity would be a damn sight cheaper. As it is we rely on proucing electric from imported gas and coal, so we're at the mercy of OPEC and the Russians

[Alan Westy]

Most of you who post on this forum do not remember what the country was like in 1979 before Mrs Thatcher came to power, it was run basically by the unions who held the country to ransom. If she had not implemented reforms we would by now have a third rate economy lower than Italy & Spain. As for privatisation I for one would not want to go back to the "good old days" when you waited up to 6 months to get a phone line installed or had to have a party line.

[johntheexpat]

Originally Posted by Chris Lamle

If we had good old nuke power in abundance (like the French) our electricity would be a damn sight cheaper. As it is we rely on proucing electric from imported gas and coal, so we're at the mercy of OPEC and the Russians

Some French numbers to mull over:

I pay a standing charge of 13.83€ per month for a maximum 9KW draw. A higher maximum incurs a higher charge and lower max, incurs less. (+VAT @ 5.5%)

I basically have economy 7, roughly 5.5 cheap hours overnight and 1.5 at lunchtime.

Cheap leccy is 0.0463€/KWh +VAT@19.60% = 0.0554€
Less cheap leccy is .0787€ + VAT = 0.0941 €
=
The current exchange rate is £1 = 1.39€ so:

Cheap = (near as dammit) 4p per KWh
Less cheap = (n.a.d) 6.8p per KWh

(Geeky stuff, 'cos its all on the bill:
Nuclear is 85.7% of the total, renewable is 5.9% (hydroelectric is 5%), coal 3.3%, 3.2% is gas, 1.6% oil and others 0.3%.)

And finally EDF broke a record during the week, when supply reached a fraction under 89,000MW at 19:00 one evening

[sim667]

Lets be honest, privatisation is a bit rubbish!

[Decadence]

Privatisation was a big joke...on us. So now we get held to ransom every quarter.

[la gran siete]

Originally Posted by Alan Westy

Most of you who post on this forum do not remember what the country was like in 1979 before Mrs Thatcher came to power, it was run basically by the unions who held the country to ransom. If she had not implemented reforms we would by now have a third rate economy lower than Italy & Spain. .

thats what the media would have us believe but Union unrest was a symptom rather than the disease itself. What really caused our problems was poor management poor leadership and lack of investment

[andykn]

Originally Posted by la gran siete

thats what the media would have us believe but Union unrest was a symptom rather than the disease itself. What really caused our problems was poor management poor leadership and lack of investment

Unfortunately the only people who are worse at efficiently running an operation than greedy capitalists are civil servants. That's why stuff was privatised and much of it is cheaper in real terms than it was ten or twenty years ago.

I would have preferred to see ownership of assets that are effective monopolies (such as distibution of gas, electric water and local phone) kept public with the management of those assets being let out to tender.

So I would still own a share of, say, the national gas pipeline network, and would ask firms to tender for its upkeep and maintenance every so many years.

[city fan]

Originally Posted by la gran siete

madcap ideology called Thatcherism.

This Madcap ideology got Britain out of some serious decline and actually made the country competitive.

Originally Posted by la gran siete

And thoie who think I never criticise this Government. I do for, continuing this thatcherite balderdash.

The only good thing about Labour. They actually kept a lot of the good things the Tories had implemented and tried to put a more caring spin on things.

Originally Posted by la gran siete

The private sector is all about profit first and not service- thats secondary

Exactly. The way things should be. Profit makes us all stonger, as does competion. You cannot artificially create jobs and wealth. The era of Keynes is well behind us. Adam Smith is again to be shown to be right.

To go back to the times of Benn, Foot and their ilk would be truly frightening. An uncompetive country, ruled by Unions

[andykn]

Originally Posted by city fan

This Madcap ideology got Britain out of some serious decline and actually made the country competitive.

Competitive at what?