[RMCF]

I recently had a dispute on eBay and this morning PayPal sided with the buyer and refunded him his money.

I have just withdrawn my funds and asked them to close the account asap.

I posted the item but he claimed it never arrived. Unfortunately I did not register it, and I believe 100% that he got the item and when he saw that it didn't need signed for decided to say it never arrived.

I checked his feedback. He was a member of eBay under 2 months and had 94% feedback. About 3 weeks before my incident, he bought EXACTLY the same item from another buyer and also claimed it never arrived.

It was then that I knew I had been scammed, and told eBay and PayPal about this. I have been using eBay nearly 7 years and had over 500 positive feedbacks, at 99.9%.

Can't believe they sided with him. I won't miss the crazy PayPal fees, and am seriously considering closing my eBay account too.

[Bilbob]

sorry to hear ot fella, but that is Paypal... they don't give a stuff, the only thing they care about is protecting their own take...

[Uridium]

IME Paypal always side with the Buyer

[Decadence]

If you have his delivery address why not go round and smack him one? Or burn his house down...or kill his cat?

[Johnny Thunder]

You have to send by signed for if you accept paypal.
It is easy for a scammer because paypal will always find in favour of the buyer if you cannot produce the tracking number.

[Chaos]

Originally Posted by Johnny Thunder

You have to send by signed for if you accept paypal.
It is easy for a scammer because paypal will always find in favour of the buyer if you cannot produce the tracking number.

I always send by recorded delivery but that doesn't always work. I had something go missing in the post and the bloke claimed on paypal and won, despite me having a tracking number etc. People think Paypal is a safe way to trade but in my opinion a bank transfer or cheque isn't much difference.

[Johnny Thunder]

If thats what happened, then the dispute worked out correctly.
Your buyer was entitled to a full refund.

It is the sellers responsibility to ensure the goods are delivered, not just posted.

[Jenn]

I'm afraid Paypal is right. You assume the guy is a scammer (he may well be) but what if he isn't?

Let's just say you buy something on Ebay and you don't get it? The seller can provide a proof of delivery, not even a proof of postage. Would you think Paypal is working well if they don't refund you?

I don't think they have time to investigate the honesty of a buyer/seller.

[kingfats]

Originally Posted by Johnny Thunder

It is the sellers responsibility to ensure the goods are delivered, not just posted.

That's right!
A lot of people seem to forget this though.

[inkinoo]

PayPal are the worst company I have ever had the misfortune to deal with. How they are allowed to carry on trading is amazing.

However, in this case they are spot on. You have to send items recorded delivery to be covered under the seller protection policy. If the item is over £150, you need proof of signature too.

But to give you an idea of how rubbish they are, they investigated one transaction for potential unauthorised funds. They asked me to send proof of postage, which I did. They checked my Royal Mail tracking number against UPS, said I hadn't sent it and returned the funds to the buyer! Thankfully the buyer then sent the payment again.

PayPal = ****ers. Use Google Checkout instead.

[kendoll]

Originally Posted by Decadence

If you have his delivery address why not go round and smack him one? Or burn his house down...or kill his cat?

Let's leave the cat out of it, it probably doesn't even like him either

[pete1866]

[QUOTE=inkinoo;5920463]
If the item is over £150, you need proof of signature too.

Not sure what you mean there?

[inkinoo]

[QUOTE=pete1866;5921281]

Originally Posted by inkinoo

If the item is over £150, you need proof of signature too.

Not sure what you mean there?

If the item you are sending is over £150, you need to send it via a service where a person has to physically sign for it and you are able to see that signature. If you don't use a service like that and the buyer makes a claim they will file in favour of the buyer.

[Westindieman]

Originally Posted by Decadence

If you have his delivery address why not go round and smack him one?

Thats exactly what I would have done. I was looking up an address to drive down south and do that about 4 months ago, but Paypal refunded me apart from about a pound. Saved me from jail i spose.
Though people are right, Paypal had to take the stance they did. I also agree with others that Paypal is ***** and look after their own interests first, but Ebay is worse.

[pete1866]

[QUOTE=inkinoo;5921859]

Originally Posted by pete1866

If the item you are sending is over £150, you need to send it via a service where a person has to physically sign for it and you are able to see that signature. If you don't use a service like that and the buyer makes a claim they will file in favour of the buyer.

What type of post is that ? Is special delivery ok ?

[RMCF]

OK I take the point that I should have registered it, and perhaps PayPal's hands were tied according to their rules.

But I have posted a couple of hundred things over the last decade I'd say, and this is the first that never arrived. Despite what people say about the PO, they tend to deliver 99.99999% of the time. OK it may be late sometimes, but it will get there.

I just feel that they didn't look at each person's history in this deal. But then again they didn't have to. I could not provide proof of postage.

Silly me, but it really annoys me that this scumbag is sitting with my item for free. I have his address but it wouldn't be worth the flight over just to smack him. Then again ....

[avinitski]

Paypal are the worst company ever.

[JackFord]

I hear Amazon Market place are crazy. I can buy a DVD from new/used. A used dvd marked as near mint and I have up to six months to claim all my money back if the items are not as describbed. I hear amazon always side with the buyer, not sure how true it is but crazy to think.

[RMCF]

Originally Posted by avinitski

Paypal are the worst company ever.

Well my dealings with them are over anyway - back to the good old reliable cheque.

[pete1866]

Originally Posted by JackFord

I hear Amazon Market place are crazy. I can buy a DVD from new/used. A used dvd marked as near mint and I have up to six months to claim all my money back if the items are not as describbed. I hear amazon always side with the buyer, not sure how true it is but crazy to think.

Had a few dealings with amazon and they seem to always agrere with the buyer . Sold a phone desribed it as good condition when it was mint. She said not as described ,doesn`t work right , when i knew it did. She told amazon i had said it was excellent.
I thought aha i have got you here , but no amazon eventually forced me to give her the money back . Lying so and so. Sold on ebay instead , the other buyer was well pleased with it . I would only use amazon very rarely now.

[kpjf]

Is nobody aware of Royal Mail's policy?

If an item goes missing in the post you are covered upto £32, it doesn't matter if it was sent standard 1st/2nd class post whatsoever. I don't understand why people sell dvds on ebay at £1 and send it recorded, they're just wasting 65p when you're covered regardless of whether it is sent recorded or not.

Basically i sent someone a book on ebay which went missing. I think i sold the book for about a tenner and postage cost me £5.50, so i sent Royal Mail my POP and after a while got a cheque in the post for the full amount including refund from RM.

So, next time this happens, just refund the customer, fill in the online form on Royal Mail's website and everything is sorted!

[pete1866]

Originally Posted by kevferris

Is nobody aware of Royal Mail's policy?

If an item goes missing in the post you are covered upto £32, it doesn't matter if it was sent standard 1st/2nd class post whatsoever. I don't understand why people sell dvds on ebay at £1 and send it recorded, they're just wasting 65p when you're covered regardless of whether it is sent recorded or not.

Basically i sent someone a book on ebay which went missing. I think i sold the book for about a tenner and postage cost me £5.50, so i sent Royal Mail my POP and after a while got a cheque in the post for the full amount including refund from RM.

So, next time this happens, just refund the customer, fill in the online form on Royal Mail's website and everything is sorted!

Yes but a scammer would say he didn`t receive it. Royal mail will say they posted it and paypal will give him his money back because it was not sent by a trackabke method

[danmc_82]

Originally Posted by Johnny Thunder

It is the sellers responsibility to ensure the goods are delivered, not just posted.

As far as im aware, as soon as the sellar has posted the item they have nothing more to do with it, Its then the buyers responsability. Its the buyers fault for not asking for a more secure delivery. This is what ebay told me when I went through a similar thing.

[kpjf]

As far as im aware, as soon as the sellar has posted the item they have nothing more to do with it, Its then the buyers responsability. Its the buyers fault for not asking for a more secure delivery. This is what ebay told me when I went through a similar thing.

Personally i think you're wrong (no offense meant). Let's look at it, you buy a dvd from play.com/amazon etc do you think if you emailed them to say you never received the item (and of course after a certain amount of days and that you'd checked at your local sorting office), they would say tough luck mate, we done our bit, get in touch with RM about it; obviously not! They would refund you or replace the item.

Okay you may say we're talking about just random people selling the odd dvd here and there, but it is ultimately your fault if the item does not reach the buyer. Technically of course it's RM's fault, say if a staff member steals it, or they simply leave it at your front door when you're not at home and a passer-by steals it
ie negligence on their part. But as i said they will refund you if you go through their online procedure then post the POP.

I don't know who you talked to on eBay, but that is not eBay's policy as far as i am aware, unless maybe if you buy something on eBay and do not use Paypal what you say applies. As any time an item has went missing when i was the buyer i have had a full refund and on the other hand as a seller if a buyer tells me they haven't received the item i will refund them. It makes me laugh people on eBay who write "lost packages are not my concern. If you do not opt for insurance or pay extra for recorded delivery, i will not be held responsable if your items goes missing in transit". Because if you just fill in the paypal form, you'll definitely get the refund even if it wasn't sent recorded!

Yes but a scammer would say he didn`t receive it. Royal mail will say they posted it and paypal will give him his money back because it was not sent by a trackabke method

pete1866 at the end of the day my point is it does not matter if the person is a scammer, (how would anyone be able to ascertain this anyway). Regardless of whether the person is scamming you or not, you can quite clearly in line with RM's policy get your money back if you put in a claim so you're not losing out, except for the sheer hassle of having to fill a form in and post a letter to RoyalMail to get your money back (up to £32).

[Alphatoner]

Paypal are the worst company ever?

So in what way are they the worst company ever.

Are they as bad as those companies who employ 5 year olds in 3rd world countries and pay them 5p a day?

or perhaps they dump toxic waste illegally or maybe it's because yjey secretly make millions from south american drug deals.


Why no, what a suprise it's none of those. it's because they provide a service and dare to charge a fee for it, a fee that is about comparable to that which credit card companies charge.

What B*st**ds, how dare they think they can charge for a service, what is the world comming to when you actually have to pay for a service that on the whole works very well.

Or maybr it's because when there is a dispute over receipt when no proof of delivery is provided, generally they side with the purchaser as they have to by law.

Shame on them, what is the world comming to when a large corporation actually sides with the consumer. Why can't we go back to the good old days when the buyer had no rights.

Paypal the worst company ever? Not by million miles.

[kendoll]

Originally Posted by Alphatoner

Paypal are the worst company ever?

So in what way are they the worst company ever.

Are they as bad as those companies who employ 5 year olds in 3rd world countries and pay them 5p a day?

or perhaps they dump toxic waste illegally or maybe it's because yjey secretly make millions from south american drug deals.


Why no, what a suprise it's none of those. it's because they provide a service and dare to charge a fee for it, a fee that is about comparable to that which credit card companies charge.

What B*st**ds, how dare they think they can charge for a service, what is the world comming to when you actually have to pay for a service that on the whole works very well.

Or maybr it's because when there is a dispute over receipt when no proof of delivery is provided, generally they side with the purchaser as they have to by law.

Shame on them, what is the world comming to when a large corporation actually sides with the consumer. Why can't we go back to the good old days when the buyer had no rights.

Paypal the worst company ever? Not by million miles.

Did you just happen accross that soapbox or do you carry one a round with you

I don't think the poster intended for his post to be taken literally (i.e that Ebay is actually THE worst company in the world), just an expression of frustration with the company in previous dealings.

Anyway, cheer up everyone, it's nearly the weekend

[city fan]

So for clarity a sender posts an item that is tracked and signed for.

The purchaser then tells pay pal he's not received it. A dispute is logged. The seller provides the tracking info and signature. The buyer says it's not his signature.

We're then into the realms of detective work. Do PayPal have time to do this, probably not. I suppose the buyer then gets the benefit of the doubt. So it seems risky even sending items tracked.

Out of interest anyone know how many disputes there are like this, as I'm thinking of flogging a few things on e bay and I have PayPal.

[Jenn]

Originally Posted by city fan

So for clarity a sender posts an item that is tracked and signed for.

The purchaser then tells pay pal he's not received it. A dispute is logged. The seller provides the tracking info and signature. The buyer says it's not his signature.

We're then into the realms of detective work. Do PayPal have time to do this, probably not. I suppose the buyer then gets the benefit of the doubt. So it seems risky even sending items tracked.

Out of interest anyone know how many disputes there are like this, as I'm thinking of flogging a few things on e bay and I have PayPal.

I think you'd have to turn against the post office again in such a case. The post office have a duty to deliver to the right address (not sure they must have the addressee sign for it or a member of the household only).
I don't know what come back the post office has if someone signed for it but lie saying they didn't.

[Alphatoner]

Originally Posted by kendoll

Did you just happen accross that soapbox or do you carry one a round with you

I don't think the poster intended for his post to be taken literally (i.e that Ebay is actually THE worst company in the world), just an expression of frustration with the company in previous dealings.

Anyway, cheer up everyone, it's nearly the weekend

The original poster didn't say they were, someone else did. And yes I always have a soapbox close by just in case of emergencies because trust me i hate having to defend companies like paypal, but i admit I do get a bit fed up of them being slagged off for when they have done nothing wrong. :lol:

[inkinoo]

Originally Posted by Alphatoner

The original poster didn't say they were, someone else did. And yes I always have a soapbox close by just in case of emergencies because trust me i hate having to defend companies like paypal, but i admit I do get a bit fed up of them being slagged off for when they have done nothing wrong. :lol:

I would suggest you take a look at www.paypalsucks.com. They are with doubt one of the worst companies I have had to deal with.

You also look out for next year when the FOS will report that PayPal had more complaints last year than the next 4 top complained about companies put together.