Examples of opposites meaning the same.

Mr Incredible · 01-07-2007, 11:34 PM

Just wondering how many turns of phrase there are which literally mean the opposite but which mean the same. 2 examples:

(a) He's got the brains of an ass
(b) He hasn't got the brains of an ass.

Both meaning the guy is a bit thick.

(a) Fat chance
(b) Slim chance

Both meaning little or no chance.

Just curious about the use of our wide and varied language!

Do you have any more examples?

**IronGiant** · 01-07-2007, 11:52 PM

Your're up late Bob

You're up early Bob

Moment in time thing

Dave

KevD · 02-07-2007, 1:39 AM

LGS started a similar thread a while back on the complexities of the English language.

Why English is hard to learn

njp · 02-07-2007, 9:29 AM

flammable / inflammable has always bothered me...

Mr Incredible · 02-07-2007, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevD

LGS started a similar thread a while back on the complexities of the English language.

Why English is hard to learn

Cheers Kev, and although similar it's not the same. LGS was pointing out the different meanings and pronunciation of the same written word used in the same sentence. I'm intrigued by the use of distinct phrases which literally mean the opposite, but in use actually mean the same.

Flammable and inflammable have the same definition, but the latter may appear to have the opposite meaning.
Historically, flammable and inflammable mean the same thing. However, the presence of the prefix in- has misled many people into assuming that inflammable means "not flammable" or "noncombustible." The prefix -in in inflammable is not, however, the Latin negative prefix -in, which is related to the English -un and appears in such words as indecent and inglorious. Rather, this -in is an intensive prefix derived from the Latin preposition in.

Bat-man · 02-07-2007, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice

...Historically, flammable and inflammable mean the same thing. However, the presence of the prefix in- has misled many people into assuming that inflammable means "not flammable" or "noncombustible." The prefix -in in inflammable is not, however, the Latin negative prefix -in, which is related to the English -un and appears in such words as indecent and inglorious. Rather, this -in is an intensive prefix derived from the Latin preposition in.

We all know that!

Mr Incredible · 02-07-2007, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bat-man

We all know that!

Interesting! Does the

+

denote tongue in cheek sarcasm for which the literal meaning of your statement is reversed, i.e. you didn't know it was the use of the Latin "in" not "un" which has caused the confusion?

Bat-man · 02-07-2007, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice

Interesting! Does the

+

denote tongue in cheek sarcasm for which the literal meaning of your statement is reversed, i.e. you didn't know it was the use of the Latin "in" not "un" which has caused the confusion?

Mmmmm? Possibly a little ingracious of you.

**Garrett** · 02-07-2007, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice

(a) Fat chance
(b) Slim chance

Soon as I saw the thread title I thought of those two.

Fat chance is a sarcastic comment whereas Slim chance is less so and could be said in sincerity.

**Garrett** · 02-07-2007, 12:24 PM

Also same sounding word meaning the opposite raise meaning lift or build somthing high, but saying raise to the ground means destroying and lowering.

Mr Incredible · 02-07-2007, 12:27 PM

I thought it was "raze" to the ground in terms of destroying?

Mr Incredible · 02-07-2007, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garrett

Soon as I saw the thread title I thought of those two.

Fat chance is a sarcastic comment whereas Slim chance is less so and could be said in sincerity.

Interesting that the topic of sarcasm has now cropped up in the examples. If one considers my first example, the "hasn't got brains of an ass" is usually delivered with sarcasm, whereas the first one is more a statement of fact or exasperation.

Mmm, perhaps it's the injection of sarcasm that reverses the meaning.

**Garrett** · 02-07-2007, 4:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice

I thought it was "raze" to the ground in terms of destroying?

Thats what I said in my post was it not albeit I said raise not raze

Mr Incredible · 02-07-2007, 5:30 PM

There's confusion abound when there is pronunciation issues in the spoken word (raise vs raze), but you would not confuse the two in the written word. The written word can be confusing without the context of its usage, eg The husband and wife in the small dinghy were rowing about the rowing. i.e. arguing about the activity of rowing a boat. Without the context of the ending, the first "rowing" could be pronounced either way. Raze and raise although sounding the same, have the opposite meaning. I'm intrigued with phrases which are literally opposite to each other but appear to have the same meaning (not pronunciation). Thanks for your input though, it all adds to the thought processes!

Pat_C · 02-07-2007, 5:46 PM

Are we allowed to transcend national borders here?

I could care less (US English)
I couldn't care less (proper English)

Dony · 02-07-2007, 6:35 PM

Half Full - Half empty. Full and empty are opposites, yet stick the word half in front and they become the same.

On the subject of words sounding the same when I was a kid (many years ago) my mother sent me to the shop to get a 1/2 lb of mince. I brought back 50p's worth of polo mints!!!...

Mr Incredible · 02-07-2007, 6:52 PM

Cheers Dony, close but no cigar!

Half full and half empty although literally the same do not have the same meaning when used. One denotes pessimism and the other optimism with respect to any given situation.

Mr Incredible · 02-07-2007, 7:01 PM

The misunderstanding of a word or words was amply portrayed in my all time favourite Two Ronnie's sketch when a shop keeper (Ronnie Corbett) issued four candles to the customer (Ronnie Barker) who had asked for fork handles! Classic!!

Just found the sketch on Youtube!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu9MptWyCB8

PoochJD · 03-07-2007, 11:37 AM

Hi,

Not quite the same thing, but still funny and relevant nonetheless: I found this on the internet at some point, and kept a copy. Hope you enjoy.

Spoken English - what a lovely language!!

The bandage was wound around the wound.
The farm was used to produce produce.
The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
We must polish the Polish furniture.
He could lead if he would get the lead out.
The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present.
I did not object to the object.
There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.
They were too close to the door to close it.
Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.
How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?
I shed my clothes in the shed.

In addition....
There is no egg in eggplant, nor ham in a hamburger.
Neither apple nor pine in a pineapple.
English muffins weren't invented in England, nor French fries in France.
Sweetmeats are candies while sweetbreads, aren't sweet, but are meat.

We take English for granted. But if we explore its paradoxes, we find that:
- quicksand can work slowly
- boxing rings are square,
- and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig.

And why is it that bakers bake, but grocers don't groce? If the plural of tooth is teeth, why isn't the plural of booth, "beeth"? One goose, 2 geese; one moose, 2 meese? One index, 2 indices?

If a teacher taught, why didn't the preacher, praught? If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?

Sometimes I think all the English speakers should be committed to an asylum for the verbally insane. In what language do people recite at a play and play at a recital? We ship by truck and send cargo by ship? Have noses that run and feet that smell? How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, but a wise man and a wise guy are opposites?

You have to marvel at the unique lunacy of a language in which our house can burn up as it burns down, in which you fill-in a form by filling it out (or fill-out a form, by filling it in!), and in which an alarm goes off by going on.

English was invented by people, not computers and it reflects the creativity of the human race, (which, of course, isn't a race at all). That is why, when the stars are out, they are visible, but when the lights are out, they are invisible. And finally, how about when you want to shut down your computer you have to hit "START"?!

English - It's all German to you and me!

Pooch

higenbs1 · 03-07-2007, 11:49 AM

Great post Pooch. I love the English language because of all this

Mr Incredible · 03-07-2007, 12:45 PM

Seconded.

IT reminds me of that old (?) word trick (George Bernard Shaw I think) of how to pronounce a fictitious word:

GHOTI

Spoiler for those who want to work it out:
The "answer" was the same pronunciation as FISH
GH as an "F" as the GH in enough
O as a short "i" as O in wOmen
TI as a "sh" as TI in nation

This is actually interesting in that the "O" is pronounced differently between the singular woman and the plural women.

**IronGiant** · 03-07-2007, 1:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice

This is actually interesting in that the "O" is pronounced differently between the singular woman and the plural women.

Which brings us neatly back to two opposites that mean the same:

Yes, dear and

No, dear

Dave

brendan_dj · 03-07-2007, 1:58 PM

Im not sure whether to post this annoying use of the English language here or in the "irrational hate" thread. But...

I hate it when the local traffic news confuses the words "Both" and "either"

Such as:
"There are 6 mile tailbacks in either direction at the Dartford River Crossing". Surely they mean "Both directions"

Also...There are 2 lanes at a set of traffic lights leading to the same destination. A road-sign says "Use Both Lanes". Surely they mean "either lane"

I keep hoping that a Police-car is behind me as I straddle the white line. What a conversation that will be

Pat_C · 03-07-2007, 5:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brendan_dj

Also...There are 2 lanes at a set of traffic lights leading to the same destination. A road-sign says "Use Both Lanes". Surely they mean "either lane"

No, as the instruction is to all drivers, who collectively should use both lanes.

Of course it would be different if it was prefixed with 'Oi you in the red Mondeo', but that isn't the case around my way

Mr Incredible · 03-07-2007, 5:50 PM

I've just remembered another example.

It sucks.
It blows.

As in something is poor/bad.

Mr Incredible · 03-07-2007, 6:12 PM

Just following on from Pooch's post for a second:

I will permit the permit to be displayed.
The disabled person had displayed an invalid invalid sticker.

Perhaps these types of examples deserve a thread on their own!

brendan_dj · 03-07-2007, 6:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat_C

No, as the instruction is to all drivers, who collectively should use both lanes.

But often, I am the only car at the red light. Therefore, the instruction can only be directed at me as there are no other cars around.
(apart from the Police-car that I pray pulls up behind

)

On a similar subject, every morning there is an announcement at Canary Wharf tube station saying "Please use all available doors". I only have 30 seconds to commit this feat before the train pulls away.